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Thread: Hit / Focus matters in PvP...

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Hit / Focus matters in PvP...

    So, lets take a break from the nerf Warriors, Buff rogues, Healing is OP QQ lately and talk about some real PvP issues...

    Hit... Yes, it does matter in PvP, and requires a significant ammount to negate dodges and misses.

    After some testing with a friend over the weekend, full P8 toons, I think we came to an agreed number of around 120+- for melee classes to land all hits.

    This stats for each player was around 16% dodge, 17% parry. Not including block in this. With 0 hit, full stat bonus enhancments, I missed around 1/4 swings/attacks/finishers agaisnt a fellow Warrior.
    Him, instead, droping stat enhancments and some PvP items for PvE equivlent with hit, droped him to around low 800 valor, a lose of 100ish ATP and some crit, landed every hit/finisher/attack against myself having around a 33% passive mitigation.

    This is crazy, and I/we were under the assumption that hit was *not* required for PvP.... 0 PvP items have hit, and to even come close to 120hit, you must lose a substantial ammount of PvP gear...

    Hit should never be needed in PvP.

    Granted, the tests were done w/ 2 warriors, so results may differ.. I am not sure of the focus equal, but test it out, and check resists n such... I cant imagine spells needing alot for the simple reason, most PvP toons have little to nothing magic resist stats, so you guys might not be as effected...

    So, it begs the question.... Drop all stat enchants in favor for hit, drop valor armor / weapons for PvE items with hit? Missing 1/4 shots in the "BiS" PvP gear is :/
    Last edited by Columbian; 08-22-2011 at 04:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auden View Post
    I think the problem is too many terrible players in Rift that are involved with PVP.

    As well as when they die in PVP, all they see on their screen is the warrior.. not the other 5 ranged classes that assisted him.

  2. #2
    Rift Master Carthoris's Avatar
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    Someone did this testing earlier and posted the results in another thread a while back, but I can't find it. IIRC, you want 125 rating/25% hit - parry and dodge are capped at 20% outside of cooldowns, and there's a base 5% miss chance. This does also affect block, but that's a waste of time to even try and overcome.

    I agree it's stupid, but avoidance is so ridiculously high that without it PvP is even worse.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carthoris View Post
    Someone did this testing earlier and posted the results in another thread a while back, but I can't find it. IIRC, you want 125 rating/25% hit - parry and dodge are capped at 20% outside of cooldowns, and there's a base 5% miss chance. This does also affect block, but that's a waste of time to even try and overcome.

    I agree it's stupid, but avoidance is so ridiculously high that without it PvP is even worse.
    It could be my thread you're talking about.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-will-end.html

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carthoris View Post
    Someone did this testing earlier and posted the results in another thread a while back, but I can't find it. IIRC, you want 125 rating/25% hit - parry and dodge are capped at 20% outside of cooldowns, and there's a base 5% miss chance. This does also affect block, but that's a waste of time to even try and overcome.

    I agree it's stupid, but avoidance is so ridiculously high that without it PvP is even worse.

    Yea, I saw that, but its burried I guess.... Intersting point about P/D being capped at 20%, base chance to miss of 5%... Is that 20% each or both combined?

    Any hard numbers of those figures? Which bring me to another point, of "Damage reduction in general" ... If those stats are hard capped, is damage reduction also in the same boat?..., IE... no point in specing into talents that boost the above stats, since really, you can hit the hard cap without it, and rendering those points spent useless...?
    Quote Originally Posted by Auden View Post
    I think the problem is too many terrible players in Rift that are involved with PVP.

    As well as when they die in PVP, all they see on their screen is the warrior.. not the other 5 ranged classes that assisted him.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Maybe you could try and focus the mages/clerics instead.

  6. #6
    Banned Bunzy's Avatar
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    how much hit for ranged rogues?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bisouslove View Post
    Maybe you could try and focus the mages/clerics instead.
    They dodge also, hate to break it to ya. This wasnt about which class dodges more or less, it was simply pointing out, yet again, the simple fact that Hit in PvP is very important, which it should not be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auden View Post
    I think the problem is too many terrible players in Rift that are involved with PVP.

    As well as when they die in PVP, all they see on their screen is the warrior.. not the other 5 ranged classes that assisted him.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker
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    Been saying this since 1.2.

    Nobody ****ing listens.

  9. #9
    Rift Master Carthoris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtdh View Post
    It could be my thread you're talking about.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-will-end.html
    Yup, that's the one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbian View Post
    Yea, I saw that, but its burried I guess.... Intersting point about P/D being capped at 20%, base chance to miss of 5%... Is that 20% each or both combined?

    Any hard numbers of those figures? Which bring me to another point, of "Damage reduction in general" ... If those stats are hard capped, is damage reduction also in the same boat?..., IE... no point in specing into talents that boost the above stats, since really, you can hit the hard cap without it, and rendering those points spent useless...?
    I may be wrong, but I believe the roll system is such that 25% hit will apply 25% each to dodge, block, and parry. I run 110 hit as a MM rogue and rarely see dodges or parries unless a cooldown is up. Damage reductions apply multiplicatively, so there's never a time when you wouldn't see a benefit from one. The only hard caps are on the dodge/block/parry/crit/maybearmor? from ratings listed on your character sheet.

    As far as hard numbers, parry and dodge are indeed capped at 20% on the character sheet (again, cooldowns can push this number higher),

    Dodge and Parry each have hard caps of 20%...


    Quote Originally Posted by Emprahh View Post
    Been saying this since 1.2.

    Nobody ****ing listens.
    Yeah, but what are they going to do? Adding hit to PvP gear would make it superior to PvE gear and cause endless whining, and removing/capping defensive stats even moreso in PvP would hurt the viability of tank specs (in PvP).
    Last edited by Carthoris; 08-22-2011 at 06:46 PM.

  10. #10
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    Nice link there... Pretty much sumed up that any -X% "damage" skill/ability will be a much greater benefit against a hit capped enemy then say, -X% chance of complete avoidence.... Where is gets tricky is learning weither people are hit capping themself in PvP or not.... Hrmmm

    Which brings us the the next thing: How much to stats and valor do we drop for hit while still being viable.

    Just tossing numbers around... -19STR, -15END, -51Crit in exchange for what, 89hit and 10 ATP? Then we have to ask, is that worth losing and still not being close to the "hit for pvp cap"

    I cannot really see a way around this unless you are A: Raider with access to high end hit "off spec" items.., IE, bow for warriors, wand for casters... B: Start droping Valor to cap out, in which you will loose even more "prime" stats...

    And all this just to combat a RNG to max your possiable damage potential while in PvP combat...
    Quote Originally Posted by Auden View Post
    I think the problem is too many terrible players in Rift that are involved with PVP.

    As well as when they die in PVP, all they see on their screen is the warrior.. not the other 5 ranged classes that assisted him.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    in my opinion hit shouldnt matter in pvp and trion should change that, just like valor doesnt matter in pve.

    they should:
    - add hit/focus to pvp items or
    - make you recieve 10% of your valor as hit/focus.. so someone with 1k valor will have 100 hit which is about right for pvp.

    however i believe this will be unfair for the PvE players, which is why i repeat my first suggestion, hit shouldnt matter in pvp.
    Last edited by Byona; 08-22-2011 at 07:17 PM.
    See you all in Wildstar!

  12. #12
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    i wish they would remove +hit from working....... perhaps people would live longer than 5 sec.
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  13. #13
    Rift Master Carthoris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    i wish they would remove +hit from working....... perhaps people would live longer than 5 sec.
    +Hit is the only thing letting people kill warriors right now - stopping it from working would make the pvp landscape even more one-sided (as if that were possible).

    Also, your sig makes no sense. Macros in Rift have worked that way since at least Beta 5.
    Last edited by Carthoris; 08-22-2011 at 09:39 PM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Sorovos's Avatar
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    I remember a few patches ago, There were some low rank ***** in Sanctum who kept telling me Hit and focus didn't matter, and I kept calling them idiots... for being well idiots.

    It takes all but 10 seconds of playing with 0 focus or hit, vs playing with high focus/hit to figure out it matters a crap ton.
    Xsorus - Rank 8 Mage/Server Seastone/Guardian/Guild - Desolate

  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    Hit is fairly good, it negates parry/dodge and maybe block (needs more testing.)

    Focus is flat out insanely overpowered. It not only removes the chance to be resisted, but it also removes the damage reduction from resists. So if you stack an anti-fire sigil and a pyromancer has enough focus, he will completely ignore the effects of your fire resist. It is like if having enough hit reduced targets to 0 armor (we all saw how balanced armor ignoring warriors were.)

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