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Thread: The real reason why warriors are OP

  1. #1
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    Default The real reason why warriors are OP

    Here is the real reason as to why we all think warriors are op! its actually quite simple!

    Reason being? the diminishing return system!!!!

    you ask yourself, well how is it that makes them overpowered? Well let me enlighten you, everytime you have a warrior in your face, and you try to get away, you die, because you are unable to peel that said warrior (I as a mage hate this)

    on the other hand, if I was able to 100% know I can root them, or knockback, or slow (because they wouldn't share the same dr) would I be to worried about warriors? not at all! The moment I saw one in my face I would be able to create distance using the one of the 3 cc's noted!

    But as it is right now the dr system is ****ed up beyond all recognition... let me tell you exactly how matches go, especially in the new whitefall. The warrior charges in, the moment he charges he will suffer a small stun, or an AoE fear from the other warriors,he will get out of that, proceed to go directly to the cleric or mage healer, they will then use some sort of knock back or something to create some distance, then guess what? For the next 15 seconds that warrior is an unstoppable killing machine, he is a freight train destroying everything in his path because nothing can stop him, and no one can create space between him.

    So to recap, warriors hit extremely hard when in your face, right now we all hate them because we can not get them out of our face, I am fine with the damage they do, but at least give me a chance when facing them to create some space so im not useless... PROBLEM SOLVED

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    too much hp,
    too much armor,
    too much damage,
    too many ways to get close to your target,
    not enough CC duration.

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    No because the warrior has more cc than you and on a shorter timer.

    Theyre overpowered because they have too many closers on too short a cooldown, too much cc and too much burst and off gcd abilities for a plate wearing class.

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    DR needs to be this way. In fact I don't think the DR is strong enough. Maybe things like knockback should be off the DR. But it's more frustrating being fear locked for an entire match than it is being charged and then fragged by a warrior.
    I have a photoshopic memory. I remember everything you say or do exactly the way I want to.

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    I'm all for warriors charging in and doing hefty damage, but it shouldn't be with a sword and board and broken talents like planar blade making them entirely unkiteable.

    When you have a build with heavy mitigation and high damage, it's out of balance. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stage9 View Post
    too much hp,
    too much armor,
    too much damage,
    too many ways to get close to your target,
    not enough CC duration.
    Too many off-GCD skills that can be macro'd together

    Plus Lingering Wounds and Battlefield Intimidation
    Last edited by Click; 08-21-2011 at 03:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killhimnotme View Post
    Here is the real reason as to why we all think warriors are op! its actually quite simple!

    Reason being? the diminishing return system!!!!

    you ask yourself, well how is it that makes them overpowered? Well let me enlighten you, everytime you have a warrior in your face, and you try to get away, you die, because you are unable to peel that said warrior (I as a mage hate this)

    on the other hand, if I was able to 100% know I can root them, or knockback, or slow (because they wouldn't share the same dr) would I be to worried about warriors? not at all! The moment I saw one in my face I would be able to create distance using the one of the 3 cc's noted!

    But as it is right now the dr system is ****ed up beyond all recognition... let me tell you exactly how matches go, especially in the new whitefall. The warrior charges in, the moment he charges he will suffer a small stun, or an AoE fear from the other warriors,he will get out of that, proceed to go directly to the cleric or mage healer, they will then use some sort of knock back or something to create some distance, then guess what? For the next 15 seconds that warrior is an unstoppable killing machine, he is a freight train destroying everything in his path because nothing can stop him, and no one can create space between him.

    So to recap, warriors hit extremely hard when in your face, right now we all hate them because we can not get them out of our face, I am fine with the damage they do, but at least give me a chance when facing them to create some space so im not useless... PROBLEM SOLVED
    I think you're on to something. It's diminishing returns that allow him to kill me before the stun wears off.

    Damn those diminishing returns. How DARE they diminish like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astrocanis View Post
    I think you're on to something. It's diminishing returns that allow him to kill me before the stun wears off.

    Damn those diminishing returns. How DARE they diminish like that.
    well im not gonna lie to you here... ive been playing chloro/dom for quite some time now, and the soul reason was so I could survive warriors... I now have next to no problems with them but thats probably because of my heals and my way to mitigate there damage haha

    I honestly gave up on playing a pure dps spec, so maybe warriors are still bad, I really don't know since ive been forced to play heals, but I don't die in stuns anymore lol, I know with my spec now, if I could actually cc them, they would be 10x easier lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fujitasix View Post
    I'm all for warriors charging in and doing hefty damage, but it shouldn't be with a sword and board and broken talents like planar blade making them entirely unkiteable.

    When you have a build with heavy mitigation and high damage, it's out of balance. Period.
    the damage these SnB warriors are doing is less than half what the previous fotm para/champs were doing.

    as for CC and diminishing returns....
    with dr, players are able to actualy play.
    without dr, too many players spend too much time unable to do anything.
    want dr removed? be prepared to be chain aoe feared by warriors for entire warfront matches. or chain stunned by rogues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stage9 View Post
    too much hp,
    too much armor,
    too much damage,
    too many ways to get close to your target,
    not enough CC duration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Click View Post
    Too many off-GCD skills that can be macro'd together

    Plus Lingering Wounds and Battlefield Intimidation
    The main issue is that there is no tradeoffs for the warrior class. You go from 2hander/dual wield to sword n board your damage should be cut in half but it isn't. You trade damage for survivability in a fair manner not 5% damage loss for 40% more armor and 2x as hard to kill(THANKS BLOCK).

    As a Rogue if I spec into Riftstalker I can't do ANY DAMAGE AT ALL. The spec that gives me all the movement abilites has no offense and I will die to a naked bard if I try to fight one. Thats fine though because its a trade off. Warriors don't trade damage in a equal way for surviveability and thats the main issue.

    Damage
    Crowd Control
    High Health Pool
    High Defense
    Mobility

    Pick 2.

    That's how it should be.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raitoken View Post
    The main issue is that there is no tradeoffs for the warrior class. You go from 2hander/dual wield to sword n board your damage should be cut in half but it isn't. You trade damage for survivability in a fair manner not 5% damage loss for 40% more armor and 2x as hard to kill(THANKS BLOCK).

    As a Rogue if I spec into Riftstalker I can't do ANY DAMAGE AT ALL. The spec that gives me all the movement abilites has no offense and I will die to a naked bard if I try to fight one. Thats fine though because its a trade off. Warriors don't trade damage in a equal way for surviveability and thats the main issue.

    Damage
    Crowd Control
    High Health Pool
    High Defense
    Mobility

    Pick 2.

    That's how it should be.
    you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
    the SnB builds you reffer to are spending 50 points in dps souls, and 16 in a tanking soul. of course they are still going to do damage. their survivability is nowhere near what you think it is. the highest contributing factor to a warriors survivabiliy is the same as everyone elses: valor.

    warriors that spend most or all of their points in tank souls (subdue builds) do no damage. they have much greater survivability than the dps SnB warriors you see. you are very likely encountering both SnB dps and subdue tanks but cant tell the difference between the two.

    the problem for warriors is that we really only have 2 roles. dps or tank. we have 4 of each kind of soul. all the survivability abilities are spread over 4 souls, while other classes have that same level of survivability condensed into one or two souls. you will find all of a warriors high health pool and high defence and some of its control in those 4 souls.
    likewise all of its damage and mobility and some of its control are spread throughout the 4 dps souls.

    your biggest mistake is thinking that the SnB warrior is specced for survivability. its not. its specced for damage.
    Last edited by Kronos v; 08-21-2011 at 09:16 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
    the SnB builds you reffer to are spending 50 points in dps souls, and 16 in a tanking soul. of course they are still going to do damage. their survivability is nowhere near what you think it is. the highest contributing factor to a warriors survivabiliy is the same as everyone elses: valor.

    warriors that spend most or all of their points in tank souls (subdue builds) do no damage. they have much greater survivability than the dps SnB warriors you see. you are very likely encountering both SnB dps and subdue tanks but cant tell the difference between the two.

    the problem for warriors is that we really only have 2 roles. dps or tank. we have 4 of each kind of soul. all the survivability abilities are spread over 4 souls, while other classes have that same level of survivability condensed into one or two souls. you will find all of a warriors high health pool and high defence and some of its control in those 4 souls.
    likewise all of its damage and mobility and some of its control are spread throughout the 4 dps souls.

    your biggest mistake is thinking that the SnB warrior is specced for survivability. its not. its specced for damage.
    Fair enough.

    But the problem I have is that they are able to be a damage build while wearing a shield which blocks a TON of damage including bleeds which in turn gives them more surviveability along with their armor. A decent shield @50 has more armor THEN ALL OF MINE! Thats a huge damage reduction.

    The reason warriors are so hard to kill isn't their valor, everyone has valor and I do fine against most. It's their armor.

    I crit for 1500-2000 on most targets. An equally geared warrior its 900-1200 and my Rapid fire shot sees double digit numbers when I use it on them with some of it blocked.

    Speccing for DPS and using a shield? That's the tradeoffs I'm talking about, there isn't one there.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara
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    I read these threads, and even when the first post is solid and makes a valid point, it's followed by a derp train of one-liners making less sense as the thread goes on.

    Derp plate! Derp lingering wounds! Derp gap closers... on and on...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    We’re generally happy with the current state of Warriors and are continuing to monitor a number of smaller issues involving them.
    R8 Rogue
    R8 Warrior

  14. #14
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    Warriors get a shield.. just like clerics.. You don't need to be a tank spec to use a shield. Equipping a shield for the physical damage reduction comes with a built in tradeoff in the damage lost by going 1h instead of 2h. The shield users win vs melee rogues but have more trouble being able to do enough damage to take down healers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    We’re generally happy with the current state of Warriors and are continuing to monitor a number of smaller issues involving them.
    R8 Rogue
    R8 Warrior

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Veiny's Avatar
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    I swear these topics go round and round and round?

    I believe that there are always ways to counter a inyoface warrior.
    For example.. what about your own ccs?.. then you can create the gap you like, run up onto a rock and spam your moves.
    It is more about thinking how to play your character.
    If you are a rogue.. you can catch a warrior, by his/her lonesome stealth, stun, stack etc.. and he is dead.
    every class has their strengths and weaknesses.
    i roll a champ.. sometimes i wish i could undo the bullrush i just did, because out pops a rogue when i least expected it, and here comes ccs from around the corner.

    they do not need to be anymore nerfed.. i think it is becoming a little ott now.. just learn to play your character properly and you will be fine

    Just remember, every class has escape mechanics.. and every class has cds to go with it... including warriors

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