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Thread: Premades and why you need to change it

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Premades and why you need to change it

    So this is reality. Fighting against organized groups that are r7-r8 in level 50 pvp will kill this game. Why? Because it's just NO FUN. I don't mind losing, heck I don't even mind losing bad if our team deserves it. But what happens in this game is simply game breaking. I don't care what argument about "we all have to grind, and it's a 'team' game" you give. A game is made or broken by HOW MUCH FUN IT IS. Maybe the premade is having fun, like the fun of beating up a child with a baseball bat kind of fun, I really have no idea, but the rest of us farm animals are not having fun. The farm animals outnumber the premades. Pay attention bean counters. Pay close attention.

    No FUN= lose subs
    Lose subs= goodbye Rift
    goodbye Rift= layoffs and going to work for Bioware

    oh maybe thats not so bad...I see what your doing!!! Tricky devs!!!

    ;)

    It's always important to note that Bioware is now owned by EA!! Ha! think about it...

    My solution:

    1) reward next to no prestige or favor for r8 killing r4 or lower
    2) Allow premades to queue with pugs, BUT each time the premade wins a match apply a handicap debuff to them the more they win. Consequently reward them the more the handicap goes up. If they lose thier handicap starts to go away. But of course then so does their rewards...
    3) Create a leaderboard guilds, and one that wins the most with the worst handicap. Them would be bragging rights!
    4) Let players on the other team know the handicap the other team faces

  2. #2
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    I agree entirely. Something must be done. Warfronting is currently a miserable and abject excuse for a playing experience.

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    Agreed. But I would go the opposite direction. The higher a persons rank should reward more favor and prestige. Say... p8 rewards 50 prestige/favor a kill instead of what it is now. I think that would massively encourage pre mades to seek out tougher opponents.
    Last edited by Reiz; 08-19-2011 at 11:16 PM.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Higher rewards for killing lowbies??? what??

    Am I hearing you right?

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    Your delusional OP... if you believe that teamwork should be penalizied over rewarded then I wonder if your playing the right game genre to begin with.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzonatan View Post
    Your delusional OP... if you believe that teamwork should be penalizied over rewarded then I wonder if your playing the right game genre to begin with.
    I'm not delusional. I am practical. Its not FUN. Get it??? Subs will drop, mark my words.

    Either you get it or you don't. Not my problem. Hopefully someone over at Trion has some better business sense. The pugs outnumber the elite r8 premades. You do the math.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzonatan View Post
    Your delusional OP... if you believe that teamwork should be penalizied over rewarded then I wonder if your playing the right game genre to begin with.
    A pre-made is in no way "teamwork", it's min-maxing the system to achieve the greatest rewards for the least amount of effort and risk.

    If someone wanted the greatest challenge of teamwork and skill they'd just roll with PUG groups and try to win by organizing those, not rallying up all the Rank 6-8 players on their server into a pre-made so they can go stomp rank 1-4 PUG's 3 to 0 in Whitefall and 1000 to 0 in other WF's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dzonatan View Post
    Your delusional OP... if you believe that teamwork should be penalizied over rewarded then I wonder if your playing the right game genre to begin with.
    I'm guessing you either play with a pre made and win consistently or are on a battle group that has a lot of pre mads that you get to play with. Either way it just sounds to me like you don't want your free ticket on the favor train to go away.

    Pre mades are seriously un balancing this game if you deny that's not a problem you're the delusional one.

    Every friday now I get to a point where I'm seriously reconsidering my sub. There are other games I can be playing in the very near future (not star wars, **** that game), I don't need to play Rift at all and if Trion doesn't do something fast -a lot- of their subs are going to disappear around the middle of September.
    Last edited by Reiz; 08-19-2011 at 11:34 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reiz View Post
    I'm guessing you either play with a pre made and win consistently or are on a battle group that has a lot of pre mads that you get to play with. Either way it just sounds to me like you don't want your free ticket on the favor train to go away.

    Pre mades are seriously un balancing this game if you deny that's not a problem you're the delusional one.

    Every friday now I get to a point where I'm seriously reconsidering my sub. There are other games I can be playing in the very near future (not star wars, **** that game), I don't need to play Rift at all and if Trion doesn't do something fast -a lot- of their subs are going to disappear around the middle of September.
    I leveled myself in PvP just by pugging. There were times when we faced premades, and times where my side lost countless times, and times were we decimated the other side countless times. But save facing an army of warriors and clerics the games always felt like you had a chance, that you could turn the tide somehow. This level 50 stuff is just like one side just DESTROYS the other, there is no way you are going to kill anyone. There is no middle ground of back and forth like pre-50. Once in a million games it seems.

    That game before 50 was FUN. This other game they have at 50 is NOT FUN.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seira View Post
    A pre-made is in no way "teamwork", it's min-maxing the system to achieve the greatest rewards for the least amount of effort and risk.

    If someone wanted the greatest challenge of teamwork and skill they'd just roll with PUG groups and try to win by organizing those, not rallying up all the Rank 6-8 players on their server into a pre-made so they can go stomp rank 1-4 PUG's 3 to 0 in Whitefall and 1000 to 0 in other WF's.
    Rethink your statement about premades being "in no way" teamwork.

    If a premade isn't teamwork to you, I can't help but wonder what is.

    PUGs fail against premades because they LACK teamwork. They lack coordination. They lack communication. The most frustrating thing about warfronts for me is not finding myself up against a high rank/well geared premade...it's watching all the oblivious scrubs on my team milling about, ignoring requests to coordinate, ignoring requests to work as a team, ignoring requests to focus on the objectives, ignoring requests to attack appropriate targets, ignoring requests to do anything other than what they want to do because they queued solo, dammit, and that means they do things their way and screw the 'team'.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    Rethink your statement about premades being "in no way" teamwork.

    If a premade isn't teamwork to you, I can't help but wonder what is.

    PUGs fail against premades because they LACK teamwork. They lack coordination. They lack communication. The most frustrating thing about warfronts for me is not finding myself up against a high rank/well geared premade...it's watching all the oblivious scrubs on my team milling about, ignoring requests to coordinate, ignoring requests to work as a team, ignoring requests to focus on the objectives, ignoring requests to attack appropriate targets, ignoring requests to do anything other than what they want to do because they queued solo, dammit, and that means they do things their way and screw the 'team'.
    That is fine and all, but that's not the problem I am talking about here. That happened pre-50 in the same way. What I am talking about is the HUGE disparity that this creates when combined with the gear differences. Pugs are not coordinated... What I don't get is that you expect them to be so. Some are more so, some not so much, that is life in a pug. The thing is pre 50 I was in many a good pug that beat or at least gave premades a run for their money, we might have lost even, but at least we killed some of them, had at least a little bit of competition.

    Things are not like this at 50. Do you deny this??

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythblade View Post
    That is fine and all, but that's not the problem I am talking about here. That happened pre-50 in the same way. What I am talking about is the HUGE disparity that this creates when combined with the gear differences. Pugs are not coordinated... What I don't get is that you expect them to be so. Some are more so, some not so much, that is life in a pug. The thing is pre 50 I was in many a good pug that beat or at least gave premades a run for their money, we might have lost even, but at least we killed some of them, had at least a little bit of competition.

    Things are not like this at 50. Do you deny this??
    Most premades aren't coordinated either. It's just that going in a 5 or more well geared people already improves your chances considerably. Otherwise you get funny things like a healer being on top of the damage output scoreboard (which I've seen a few times this week).
    I'm so BORED

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythblade View Post
    That is fine and all, but that's not the problem I am talking about here. That happened pre-50 in the same way. What I am talking about is the HUGE disparity that this creates when combined with the gear differences. Pugs are not coordinated... What I don't get is that you expect them to be so. Some are more so, some not so much, that is life in a pug. The thing is pre 50 I was in many a good pug that beat or at least gave premades a run for their money, we might have lost even, but at least we killed some of them, had at least a little bit of competition.

    Things are not like this at 50. Do you deny this??
    No, I don't expect PUGs to be coordinated. That's why I don't get all this sniveling nonsense from people complaining that they can't PUG an endgame activity. Warfronts are not solo activities. They're group activities regardless of what button you hit to enter the match. And in group endgame activities, counting on PUGs to tow the line is usually a bad idea. A very bad idea. But only in warfronts do people seem to think they should be fine doing it. PvP gear is on par with PvE gear. Raiders have to coordinate. They have to give thought to who they are bringing and why. They have to recruit. They have to organize. They have to schedule. And they do it all so they can go up against scripted NPC encounters.

    But put people in the more dynamic environment of endgame PvP and let them queue solo and they want the whole damn process dumbed down and homogenized so they can be handed wins and feel good about themselves.

    Nonsense.

    It wouldn't surprise me at all if the devs are hard at work on ways to shift premades out of warfronts and into other areas of content where they can find a more challenging experience but they're never going to be able to remove coordinated groups from warfronts. They're going to be a facet of warfront PvP from now until the game shuts down. There's no getting around it. There's no countermeasure to prevent it. And that means that all these people with their knickers in a knot thinking Trion is going to be able to solve the "premade" problem are wasting their time. If they're that interested in endgame PvP, they're better off putting some time into finding likeminded people on their shard to group with.

    It's an endgame group activity. Treat it as such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    No, I don't expect PUGs to be coordinated. That's why I don't get all this sniveling nonsense from people complaining that they can't PUG an endgame activity. Warfronts are not solo activities. They're group activities regardless of what button you hit to enter the match. And in group endgame activities, counting on PUGs to tow the line is usually a bad idea. A very bad idea. But only in warfronts do people seem to think they should be fine doing it. PvP gear is on par with PvE gear. Raiders have to coordinate. They have to give thought to who they are bringing and why. They have to recruit. They have to organize. They have to schedule. And they do it all so they can go up against scripted NPC encounters.

    But put people in the more dynamic environment of endgame PvP and let them queue solo and they want the whole damn process dumbed down and homogenized so they can be handed wins and feel good about themselves.

    Nonsense.

    It wouldn't surprise me at all if the devs are hard at work on ways to shift premades out of warfronts and into other areas of content where they can find a more challenging experience but they're never going to be able to remove coordinated groups from warfronts. They're going to be a facet of warfront PvP from now until the game shuts down. There's no getting around it. There's no countermeasure to prevent it. And that means that all these people with their knickers in a knot thinking Trion is going to be able to solve the "premade" problem are wasting their time. If they're that interested in endgame PvP, they're better off putting some time into finding likeminded people on their shard to group with.

    It's an endgame group activity. Treat it as such.
    Regardless on how you feel about. Most people don't like playing against pre mades and most people don't want to pre made and it's killing the pvp side of this game. Like I said, in almost exactly one month Battlefield 3 will be out, then from there the new Star Wars mmo and many other good games people will be more than willing to invest a lot of time in.

    If Trion doesn't get this sorted out by then people will begin leaving this game in quite large numbers if they haven't already.

    Also I would not consider warfronts where random people have to play together "end game" pvp. End game pvp to me would be rated arenas or warfronts. A place where organized teams go to compete against other organized teams.
    Last edited by Reiz; 08-20-2011 at 01:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reiz View Post
    Regardless on how you feel about. Most people don't like playing against pre mades and most people don't want to pre made and it's killing the pvp side of this game. Like I said, in almost exactly one month Battlefield 3 will be out, then from there the new Star Wars mmo and many other good games people will be more than willing to invest a lot of time in.

    If Trion doesn't get this sorted out by then people will begin leaving this game in quite large numbers if they haven't already.

    Also I would not consider warfronts where random people have to play together "end game" pvp. End game pvp to me would be rated arenas or warfronts. A place where organized teams go to compete against other organized teams.
    It doesn't matter what YOU consider endgame PvP to be. Warfronts are the focal endgame PvP activity in Rift. There are other PvP activities that earn prestige/favor, but warfronts are the mainstay.

    Premades rolled WoW battlegrounds from the time they were introduced and they're still doing it. And despite all the rage and all the threats and all the complaints, WoW did just fine.

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