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Thread: Warriors in PvP

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    Plane Walker Rakkasa's Avatar
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    Default Warriors in PvP

    I don't know about everyone else, but my experience as a warrior in PvP is as follows:

    1. Pre-50, won some lost some maintaining my normal tank build, I was hard to kill and that worked well for Garden and Codex, never really killed anyone unless they were low health.

    2. Got to 50 and got steamrolled everywhere in seconds except for Scion where the PvE element allowed me to function. Tried four or five different builds, never really did any better, spent a lot of money training pretty much all my souls working on the right combination. Built and rebuilt and deleted 20-30 macros trying to get ones that worked the way I wanted them to...

    3. Got to Rank 2 and found how how huge valor can be, then I got laughed at by a cleric in Scion who said "you can't kill me" - and "boring" in two separate 1 v 1s and decided it was time to start over.

    4. Spent about four straight hours reading some 50+ page threads in the warrior forum (probably 20-30 hours spent doing that as I leveled - no, I have no real life ;-), following and trying to understand what the hell they were talking about and going through all the inane argument posts - damn - maybe a couple thousand posts?.

    5. Found a build that seemed like it would work after 5-6 attempts and 10 or so different macros and then spent 15-20 hours over two days doing warfront after warfront after warfront to get the hang of the timing and when particular things would work/not work against particular classes. Had to sacrifice some things I liked - Pally full heal and break frees from a couple trees - if you fear me, I'll run around for the entire effect time.

    6. Got to Rank 3 and I get an average of 6-10 killing blows a game, depending on the game, other classes can't face roll me and nobody laughs when I riftwalk to them. If the other class is getting healed and I'm not, it's even money, if we're both getting healed it depends on multiple things being built up or off cooldown and whether or not they know what they're doing.

    Now, you can say warriors are "easy" mode, but I don't consider what I've gone through to get to this point the slightest bit "easy". I got my butt handed to me again and again and tried different things over and over until I got to the point that I actually got good at my class in PvP. I spent more time trying to figure this out then I spent studying for all my classes during entire semesters for a couple of my college years. And ---- there are still people that are way better than me.

    If everyone complaining about warriors thinks there's some cookie cutter "I win" build with macros that anyone can create and then own in PvP - they're wrong. There are a couple of builds that work well, but you have to understand them and if you can't beat a warrior that's mashing one macro over and over you need to do everything I did for your particular class and practice your butt off - then, if you're still getting smashed, come complain.

    Anyway, the thing I've determined is that team work and healing is the deciding factor the vast majority of the time - not any particular class.

    and

    If you haven't spent a lot of hours practicing, thinking about and experimenting with how to maximize your effectiveness in PvP then you have no business complaining about other people that have done those things kicking your butt. Crying for the nerf bat when this is the situation: "they killed me and I spent a whole hour working on my PvP skills" is just messed up and ruins games like these when the developers listen.

    *Rant off*

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    balance advantage and 1 hotbar macromash gameplay

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    Ascendant Chomag's Avatar
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    I have fun being very tough to kill, even if I don't 3 shot anything and cause QQ threads.

    And those who say s&b specs don't work in wfs, are wrong. And even if they are right, this is a game I'm a paying for and I will have fun in any way I see fit, so they can all **** off for all I care.
    Last edited by Chomag; 08-14-2011 at 01:36 PM.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker Rakkasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breyer View Post
    balance advantage and 1 hotbar macromash gameplay
    Did you actually read my post?

    I'm getting the impression that people don't expect to die.

    I die a lot and if I'm not it's because of unbalanced healing, not 1 hotbar button macro mash game play.

    It seems like people are crying because they're getting killed. I get killed all the time by pretty much every class. Did they one button macro mash better than I did?, no, they dotted me, then feared me, then drained me, then self healed or blew a pot, then kicked me over a cliff.

    I believe more and more that the people that come crying here are used to being able to one botton macro mash themselves and never die and now that they're actually getting killed it's "OMG - they're so OP".

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    Plane Touched Scarletroses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakkasa View Post

    3. Got to Rank 2 and found how how huge valor can be, then I got laughed at by a cleric in Scion who said "you can't kill me" - and "boring" in two separate 1 v 1s and decided it was time to start over.

    4. Spent about four straight hours reading some 50+ page threads in the warrior forum (probably 20-30 hours spent doing that as I leveled - no, I have no real life ;-), following and trying to understand what the hell they were talking about and going through all the inane argument posts - damn - maybe a couple thousand posts?.
    You cant expect to kill a high rank healer with those 25 dps weapons. Its not just valor that causes the gap its the gear in general. The difference between a rank 2 and a rank 6 hell even a rank 8 is astronomical.
    Last edited by Scarletroses; 08-14-2011 at 01:50 PM.

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    Plane Walker Rakkasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarletroses View Post
    You cant expect to kill a high rank healer with those 25 dps weapons. Its not just valor that causes the gap its the gear in general. The difference between a rank 2 and a rank 6 hell even a rank 8 is astronomical.
    I agree, I'm only up to a 33.8 Dps weapon and R6-R8 still win 8 out of 10, but they don't have time to make snide comments now. ;-)

    My point with the portion you quoted was that it was a motivator to improve my skills and I improved them by putting a lot of effort into it, not by creating a one button I win macro.

    Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakkasa View Post
    Now, you can say warriors are "easy" mode, but I don't consider what I've gone through to get to this point the slightest bit "easy". I got my butt handed to me again and again and tried different things over and over until I got to the point that I actually got good at my class in PvP. I spent more time trying to figure this out then I spent studying for all my classes during entire semesters for a couple of my college years. And ---- there are still people that are way better than me.
    What makes you think any other class has it much different at low rank?

    But back to the main question: Yes warriors ARE by far easiest class to play. Yes they have number of counters, but that hardly adds any complexity to the class itself. Once you got your gear, you can pretty much go tunnel vision buttonmash. That is really all you need to do.
    -- Trollhammer@Molinar

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    Ascendant Chomag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liho1eye View Post
    What makes you think any other class has it much different at low rank?

    But back to the main question: Yes warriors ARE by far easiest class to play. Yes they have number of counters, but that hardly adds any complexity to the class itself. Once you got your gear, you can pretty much go tunnel vision buttonmash. That is really all you need to do.

    Chlorolock. 1 spam macro, 5 situational buttons. Target something, start mashing. That something can't kill you, there is no need to cc, kite or anything, nor do you have any such abilities. If the target moves out of range, target something else. Hell, you can watch tv while pressing that macro button.
    Last edited by Chomag; 08-14-2011 at 02:10 PM.

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Rakkasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liho1eye View Post
    What makes you think any other class has it much different at low rank?

    But back to the main question: Yes warriors ARE by far easiest class to play. Yes they have number of counters, but that hardly adds any complexity to the class itself. Once you got your gear, you can pretty much go tunnel vision buttonmash. That is really all you need to do.
    We'll have to agree to disagree.

    Warrior isn't my only class - I've found ranged the easiest to play, face to face melee requires a lot more concentration than sitting back and throwing DPS until you have to use one of your multiple escape/knock-back/fear abilities. Blast, escape, blast - rinse repeat isn't exactly hard.

    Positioning matters, hitting counters matters, timing matters, getting into melee range matters, going into a situation solo or with support matters. The number of abilities you have that you can use quickly and macro doesn't in and of itself make a class easy - it's what else you have to do to be effective that adds complexity to it.

    Of course people can go tunnel vision buttonmash and any class can do that with the exception of those that have to deal with casting time issues, but I argue that, with similar gear, they'll lose to someone who puts more thought into it pretty much every time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakkasa View Post
    We'll have to agree to disagree.

    Warrior isn't my only class - I've found ranged the easiest to play, face to face melee requires a lot more concentration than sitting back and throwing DPS until you have to use one of your multiple escape/knock-back/fear abilities. Blast, escape, blast - rinse repeat isn't exactly hard.

    Positioning matters, hitting counters matters, timing matters, getting into melee range matters, going into a situation solo or with support matters. The number of abilities you have that you can use quickly and macro doesn't in and of itself make a class easy - it's what else you have to do to be effective that adds complexity to it.

    Of course people can go tunnel vision buttonmash and any class can do that with the exception of those that have to deal with casting time issues, but I argue that, with similar gear, they'll lose to someone who puts more thought into it pretty much every time.
    Lets not compare apples to oranges.
    I play warrior to and warrior is by far easier to play than my cleric. There is MUCH less awareness involved. MUCH fewer buttons. It is really not that hard to switch targets or drop fear bomb. Please don't try to make it sounds complicated.
    -- Trollhammer@Molinar

  11. #11
    Plane Walker Rakkasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liho1eye View Post
    Lets not compare apples to oranges.
    I play warrior to and warrior is by far easier to play than my cleric. There is MUCH less awareness involved. MUCH fewer buttons. It is really not that hard to switch targets or drop fear bomb. Please don't try to make it sounds complicated.
    "You" play with much less awareness and "you" have a lot fewer buttons involved, so it's not complicated for "you".

    Personally, I don't find moving my raid frames to the center of my screen and mousing over names as their green bar goes down particularly difficult. I'm sure other people, probably you, put a lot more effort into it than I do - see how that works?

    and

    Number of buttons you have to push does not equal difficulty or complexity - especially if you have time to click them with your mouse arrow.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breyer View Post
    balance advantage and 1 hotbar macromash gameplay
    You must play a mage? The mage is the only completely broken class in the game. If any mage whines about warriros then they are a joke. This is pre 1.4 btw. The most overpowered and broken class in this game is Mage and for some reason it has not been adjusted. Instead, the devs take the warrior class with no healing ability and utility and nerf the damage. The problem with nerfing warriors is that other classes have more utility, heals, and CC but also have equalivalent damage.

    The game was balanced with Warriors pre 1.4 and now it is a joke.. yet again.

    The game took a huge nose dive with the nerfs to warriors because the game needs to be a challenge and hard to play. Every class needs viable pvp specs.

    Before this jacked up patch we had mutliple pvp groups running and everyone was having fun. Now everyone is saying pvp is stupid. Warriors do not even want to bother. Was the goal of the 1.4 patch to make it so the players do not enjoy the game anymore. Make it so an entire class does not want to pvp anymore.

    Look... Mages need a huge nerf and until this happens this game will never have good pvp. Warriors need to be buffed back to pre 1.4 because they have like no CC, no healling, no utility, and only have damage againist classes that have more options. Warriors cannot slip away. Wake up Trion. Stop destroying your own game.
    Last edited by Majorin; 08-14-2011 at 03:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    Chlorolock. 1 spam macro, 5 situational buttons. Target something, start mashing. That something can't kill you, there is no need to cc, kite or anything, nor do you have any such abilities. If the target moves out of range, target something else. Hell, you can watch tv while pressing that macro button.
    If you're a Chlorolock and you put everything into one macro, you're bad. Almost every skill in the Chloromancer tree is situational and needs to be used at the correct time to max it's efficiency. Not to mention you can't even put DoT's and things like that in a macro because they don't have cooldowns, so you're wasting 4+ buttons just for spam DoT's. I'm not saying it's the most complicated class ever, I'm just saying "lawl" if you're trying to compare it to a Warrior.

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    Plane Touched krossfade's Avatar
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    Just make it so warriors can only use pillows for weapons, then everyone will be happy!
    Last edited by krossfade; 08-14-2011 at 04:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    You must play a mage? The mage is the only completely broken class in the game. If any mage whines about warriros then they are a joke. This is pre 1.4 btw. The most overpowered and broken class in this game is Mage and for some reason it has not been adjusted. Instead, the devs take the warrior class with no healing ability and utility and nerf the damage. The problem with nerfing warriors is that other classes have more utility, heals, and CC but also have equalivalent damage.

    The game was balanced with Warriors pre 1.4 and now it is a joke.. yet again.

    The game took a huge nose dive with the nerfs to warriors because the game needs to be a challenge and hard to play. Every class needs viable pvp specs.

    Before this jacked up patch we had mutliple pvp groups running and everyone was having fun. Now everyone is saying pvp is stupid. Warriors do not even want to bother. Was the goal of the 1.4 patch to make it so the players do not enjoy the game anymore. Make it so an entire class does not want to pvp anymore.

    Look... Mages need a huge nerf and until this happens this game will never have good pvp. Warriors need to be buffed back to pre 1.4 because they have like no CC, no healling, no utility, and only have damage againist classes that have more options. Warriors cannot slip away. Wake up Trion. Stop destroying your own game.
    And I didn't even notice this post, wow lol. Mages are broken? Mages need nerfs? Have you seen the amount of nerfs Mages have already gotten? Let me lay this out for you, the only soul we had that was effectively shutting down melee classes was Dominator, and that got nerfed last patch. Transference, the skill that dropped a Warrior / Rogues power regeneration to 0 was given a 75% REDUCTION in effectiveness. Warriors have no CC? Have you played a Riftblade? I mean honestly, I've been seeing them more and more frequently since the nerf to Paragon and let me tell how super cool it is getting rooted for 5 seconds, silenced for 5 seconds, stunned for 2-3 seconds, and getting roflstomped into the ground by either the Riftblade himself or his team before even casting a spell.

    I've said numerous times that I don't agree with how Trion dealt with Warrior nerfs, but taking it out on Mages? lol, no thanks.

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