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Thread: Trion, castrandom macros are RUINING pvp

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Trion, castrandom macros are RUINING pvp

    I'm sure as you're all aware just about every warrior/rogue in the game has basically a castrandom macro for combo point builders and finishers, they just run around spamming 1 button in warfronts and getting rank 8 with it.

    This crap is frankly ridiculous. Pvp should have some semblance of skill. While you have other issues with pvp such as the huge gear gap which should not exist between r1-r8 gear, you need to REMOVE this garbage.

    #show Power Strike
    suppressmacrofailures
    petcast bite
    cast rising waterfall
    cast path of the wind
    cast slashing strike
    cast Power Strike
    cast frenzied strike
    cast flinching strike
    cast Turn the Blade
    cast inescapable fury

    Sorry for the WoW comparison again but macros like this DO NOT work in WoW and they should NOT work in Rift. If you tried a macro like this in WoW it wouldn't work. First ability would be attempted, nothing after would work.

    Its RIDICULOUS how melee are running around spamming 1 button. FIX THIS TRION.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    The simple fact is that melee classes are more or less built around large macros. The abilities are specifically designed with that in mind. They would need a significant amount of rework in the majority of their abilities if they were to remove macros or significantly inhibit their functionality. IF you don't like large macros, use a non-melee class as most of them tend to work fairly well without macros, and even if they do use them they are fairly small and not spamable.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker
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    No offense, but you can't ask for a change like this. Rift isn't meant to be a game about skill, only gear and progression.

    I too have tried to get points like this across and one day realized.. ya know, this game isn't supposed to take skill.

    People will say that it does, but really it's only knowledge of simple processes. You can say learning how to tie your shoes takes a lot of skill, but all you need to do is learn something simple once and after that it's easy.

    I've played Warhammer, WoW, some other less popular MMOs, and Rift. None really have taken much skill, only basic knowledge and gear/progression.

    SW:TOR Might take some skill but idk yet. GW2 will definately take skill based on everything I've seen, although I havn't played GW.

    So basically, we come to games and go to PvP and expect the best players to win.. but really it's either you're bad (don't know much), decent (understand your class), and good (understand other classes as well). No more skill after that is required.

    This is why macros are in this game, to make it easier than WoW.
    Last edited by Alarox; 08-13-2011 at 09:32 PM.

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servy View Post
    The simple fact is that melee classes are more or less built around large macros. The abilities are specifically designed with that in mind. They would need a significant amount of rework in the majority of their abilities if they were to remove macros or significantly inhibit their functionality. IF you don't like large macros, use a non-melee class as most of them tend to work fairly well without macros, and even if they do use them they are fairly small and not spamable.

    Are you trolling? A macro should NOT play the game for you. I don't know what kind of idiot thinks this makes a good game, but like I said, pvp should not be degraded to morons licking thier monitor and running around with a castrandom macro.

    You cannot bind multiple abilities to a castrandom macro in wow, every ability you use , you have to actually use it. This is how the game should be. How the hell should the game be reworked? You don't like actually using your brain when you play?

    For all its faults WoW does pvp much better than rift, period. If you have 2600+ rating you're a good player. IF you're a rank 8 warrior in rift you could be some idiot scumbag that runs around pressing his 1 button macro all day long. You're wrong about pvp in WoW. For all its faults, doing arena at the high end of the bracket requires a LOT of skill. Go look at the videos of arena on arenajunkies.com in the videos section, if you have any familiarity with WoW its obvious, especially the ones with Skype.
    Last edited by velias; 08-13-2011 at 09:33 PM.

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    Rift Chaser Malleus's Avatar
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    Have to agree with the OP. PvP should be about skill. I don't honestly believe that TRION intentionally created this game to be easier than WoW. People should have to learn how and when to use their Re-actives and other abilities, not just simply make a Macro that will check to see if you should / shouldn't be using /casting it. Hell many of the complaints about Champion / Paragon builds would be solved simply by removing this OP function. If Champion / Paragon players actually had to think about when to use a re-active then you would see the good ones shine, and the ones that simply know how to make macros respec.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velias View Post
    Are you trolling? A macro should NOT play the game for you. I don't know what kind of idiot thinks this makes a good game, but like I said, pvp should not be degraded to morons licking thier monitor and running around with a castrandom macro.

    You cannot bind multiple abilities to a castrandom macro in wow, every ability you use , you have to actually use it. This is how the game should be. How the hell should the game be reworked? You don't like actually using your brain when you play?

    For all its faults WoW does pvp much better than rift, period. If you have 2600+ rating you're a good player. IF you're a rank 8 warrior in rift you could be some idiot scumbag that runs around pressing his 1 button macro all day long. You're wrong about pvp in WoW. For all its faults, doing arena at the high end of the bracket requires a LOT of skill. Go look at the videos of arena on arenajunkies.com in the videos section, if you have any familiarity with WoW its obvious, especially the ones with Skype.
    The first part of his post is right. Many souls in this game are designed for macros so all you have to do is drool and mash your face into the keyboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malleus View Post
    Have to agree with the OP. PvP should be about skill. I don't honestly believe that TRION intentionally created this game to be easier than WoW. People should have to learn how and when to use their Re-actives and other abilities, not just simply make a Macro that will check to see if you should / shouldn't be using /casting it.
    WoW only took skill when you had arena battles, and then it was team coordination moreso than your own play. Although I have to insist that Trion did intend for the game to be easier than WoW on purpose.

    If you throw a baseball at a window, you should know that the glass is going to break. That's also probably why you threw it there.
    Last edited by Alarox; 08-13-2011 at 09:46 PM.

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by velias View Post
    Are you trolling? A macro should NOT play the game for you. I don't know what kind of idiot thinks this makes a good game, but like I said, pvp should not be degraded to morons licking thier monitor and running around with a castrandom macro.
    Where did I say that? I said nothing of the sort. I didn't say macros should exist, I didn't say I liked them, I didn't say that they take skill to use. I said that there would be severe negative consequences to removing them due to the fact that they are an ingrained part of the game at this point. Whether or not you or I like them is irrelevant, they aren't going away anytime soon.

    You cannot bind multiple abilities to a castrandom macro in wow, every ability you use
    I really don't give a **** how it works in wow. This isn't wow. If you want thet mechanics wow uses, play wow. If you prefer the mechanics Rift uses, play Rift. This particular argument has no merit whatsover. The only reason it would be worth mentioning is to give examples of the effects of having different macro mechanics in another game and how it changes it. You have not done that here.
    you have to actually use it. This is how the game should be.
    That's a subjective matter of opinion, not a statement of fact. You prefer to need to cast every ability. Some people don't. That isn't an argument for/against any change
    How the hell should the game be reworked?
    Well, that's rather my point, actually. It leaves a fairly large gap that would need to be filled.
    You don't like actually using your brain when you play?
    Once again, I never stated my opinion either way, I have merely stated a few facts that you would need to address if you were actually attempting to seriously provoke change rather than just pointless ranting. And as I said before, if it bothers you then just don't use a melee spec, as they are not dependent on macros.

    For all its faults WoW does pvp much better than rift, period. If you have 2600+ rating you're a good player. IF you're a rank 8 warrior in rift you could be some idiot scumbag that runs around pressing his 1 button macro all day long.
    There are a lot of problems with pvp besides just macros, just read other pvp related rant threads. There is also a a decent amount of skill involved in playing a character even with macros working as they are. While there is a lot that can be in a macro, there is still stuff that isn't, and there is also more to the game than just choosing what ability to use.[/quote]

    You're wrong about pvp in WoW.
    No, I"m not. I havne't expressed any opinion about PvP in wow. I have never played wow, so I have no opinion to express. This is just full of fail right here.
    For all its faults, doing arena at the high end of the bracket requires a LOT of skill. Go look at the videos of arena on arenajunkies.com in the videos section, if you have any familiarity with WoW its obvious, especially the ones with Skype.
    I never said that wow pvp didn't requite skill. You're contradicting something that hasn't been said.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Oh so you apparently live in some fantasy land where running around pressing 1 button takes skill. Some dream world where you have terrible situational awareness, but you can just run in and press THE BUTTON. That requires so much skill. Gotcha bud.

    "There is also a a decent amount of skill involved in playing a character even with macros working as they are"

    I'm honestly just speechless you just said that, LMAO!
    Last edited by velias; 08-13-2011 at 09:55 PM.

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    Prophet of Telara Sezyrrith's Avatar
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    I've come to the conclusion that the OP wrote his post with loads of frustration built up. As he/she (I'll say 'he' from now on) was writing it, he was pre-imagining all of the flames he would get, and is mostly reflexively responding with his pre-chosen arguments against those flames.

    In short, he has his opinion set; anyone who disagrees with him will be met with fingers-in-the-ears and loud 'LA-LA-LA' and not much else. There isn't much point to responding, as it has quickly become apparent that all you will get is a repeat of his original opinion in new and exciting ways.

    TL;DR version: Don't feed the trolls. Let the topic die.
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    Champion of Telara Morituri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alarox View Post
    No offense, but you can't ask for a change like this. Rift isn't meant to be a game about skill, only gear and progression.

    I too have tried to get points like this across and one day realized.. ya know, this game isn't supposed to take skill.

    People will say that it does, but really it's only knowledge of simple processes. You can say learning how to tie your shoes takes a lot of skill, but all you need to do is learn something simple once and after that it's easy.

    I've played Warhammer, WoW, some other less popular MMOs, and Rift. None really have taken much skill, only basic knowledge and gear/progression.

    SW:TOR Might take some skill but idk yet. GW2 will definately take skill based on everything I've seen, although I havn't played GW.

    So basically, we come to games and go to PvP and expect the best players to win.. but really it's either you're bad (don't know much), decent (understand your class), and good (understand other classes as well). No more skill after that is required.

    This is why macros are in this game, to make it easier than WoW.
    Parts of this are extremely accurate.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by velias View Post
    Oh so you apparently live in some fantasy land where running around pressing 1 button takes skill. Gotcha bud.

    "There is also a a decent amount of skill involved in playing a character even with macros working as they are"

    I'm honestly just speechless you just said that, LMAO!
    That's the only thing that you can take away from that entire post? Nothing else? So you're admitting you were wrong on every other point that I addressed?

    As to the existence of skill in a game that allows macros, one could discuss it at length, but that's really only a periphery issue in my post. Had I posited that macros eliminated all skill entirely from PvP it wouldn't change my core arguments.

    Since it seems to be that it's all you care about though, I'll comment on the issue. Macros help sub-par players become average players. Average players stay average. Spectacular players will still be spectacular, even without macros, and will consistently do better than people who just aren't as smart/skilled/etc. It does shrink the gap, but to say that it eliminates skill entirely is simply wrong, and proves that you are either trolling or simply don't know what you're talking about (or both).

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezyrrith View Post
    I've come to the conclusion that the OP wrote his post with loads of frustration built up. As he/she (I'll say 'he' from now on) was writing it, he was pre-imagining all of the flames he would get, and is mostly reflexively responding with his pre-chosen arguments against those flames.

    In short, he has his opinion set; anyone who disagrees with him will be met with fingers-in-the-ears and loud 'LA-LA-LA' and not much else.
    Well...yeah. That's true of a very significant portion of all arguments that take place.
    There isn't much point to responding, as it has quickly become apparent that all you will get is a repeat of his original opinion in new and exciting ways.

    TL;DR version: Don't feed the trolls. Let the topic die.
    The arguments exist for the 3rd parties reading it, not to those actually participating, since openly and publicity admitting that you're wrong is something many people are incapable of,, yet it's rather easy to change the opinion of random lurkers who haven't opened themselves up to being embarrassed by publicly stating an opinion.
    Last edited by Servy; 08-13-2011 at 10:08 PM.

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    Prophet of Telara Sezyrrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servy View Post
    That's the only thing that you can take away from that entire post? Nothing else? So you're admitting you were wrong on every other point that I addressed?

    As to the existence of skill in a game that allows macros, one could discuss it at length, but that's really only a periphery issue in my post. Had I posited that macros eliminated all skill entirely from PvP it wouldn't change my core arguments.

    Since it seems to be that it's all you care about though, I'll comment on the issue. Macros help sub-par players become average players. Average players stay average. Spectacular players will still be spectacular, even without macros, and will consistently do better than people who just aren't as smart/skilled/etc. It does shrink the gap, but to say that it eliminates skill entirely is simply wrong, and proves that you are either trolling or simply don't know what you're talking about (or both).
    Lots of truth here. Macros won't help a bad player know where not to be standing when the time comes, and won't help him get his footwork down so that he can keep out of the enemy's defensive arc. It won't help him pick the correct targets.

    There's a LOT to being skilled at a game that macros cannot even BEGIN to affect, and to be honest, skill rotation is one of the lowest tiers of skill difference there is.
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    Rift Chaser Malleus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezyrrith View Post
    I've come to the conclusion that the OP wrote his post with loads of frustration built up. As he/she (I'll say 'he' from now on) was writing it, he was pre-imagining all of the flames he would get, and is mostly reflexively responding with his pre-chosen arguments against those flames.

    In short, he has his opinion set; anyone who disagrees with him will be met with fingers-in-the-ears and loud 'LA-LA-LA' and not much else. There isn't much point to responding, as it has quickly become apparent that all you will get is a repeat of his original opinion in new and exciting ways.

    TL;DR version: Don't feed the trolls. Let the topic die.

    I would rather not let this Thread die... after all we are already seeing TRION destroying the Synergy of certain souls just to try to appease people that are screaming for Nerfs. Honestly if this Marco situation didn't exist I don't think there would be a need for some of the silly Nerfs TRION has done thus far. I don't mind dieing to a player that is fully aware of when and how to use his abilities / re-actives but the fact that so many players in PvP are just using Marcos to do all the thinking for them is atrocious! Warriors just charge in spamming their "I Win" buttons killing groups in seconds, Clerics casting single buttons that refresh all buffs faster than they can be stripped away. I certain that the majority of PvPers want the PvP to be more about skill, not who can sit back and create the best Macro. It's bad enough that the game auto hits for us and that gear does give you a huge advantage.

    The Macros just need to go. At least I would rather see the macros gone that to see TRION continue to destroy the synergies that exist between souls. Hell the only reason why I got involved with this game was because of how dynamic the soul system was. Little by little TRION is stripping that away. We already are starting to see "cookie cutter" builds now soon it will be just another WoW with every Warrior using the same souls because nothing else will do.
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  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    That's the problem with the macro debate. We dislike how they take away skill (I was of the same opinion). But really, they let you go on auto pilot on an already simple game.

    My stance on macros:

    They allow you to hit one or two buttons to do the majority of your fighting. If this was possible in a game that took a high level of skill and concentration/effort, then they would be completely unacceptable.

    Instead they are used in this game, which does not take a large amount of skill or concentration/effort. One side of the issue mainly sees macros as taking all skill away (would be the case on skill based games but wrong here), and the other sees them as not taking any skill away because the skill lies elsewhere in decision making etc. (this really doesn't take much skill either since everything ends up being twich-type reactions instead of actual reasoning).

    So basically macros would become auto pilot on a skill based game, however this game is almost auto-pilot even without macros.
    Last edited by Alarox; 08-13-2011 at 10:18 PM.

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