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Thread: So I learned something about wf's.

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    Rift Chaser jeffreyac's Avatar
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    Default So I learned something about wf's.

    We're in the escalation: whitefall steppes. As usual, we're getting rolled. (I'm a rogue, in R4 gear, and I have more HP that all but 3 of my team... a breif check as I'm fighting shows I have less HP than all but 2 of the enemy... gear FTW!)

    ...but that's not the point. The point is, in addition to being outgeared, we have one of our guardians just... sitting there.

    Now, he's not AFK. He's there, he responds when you talk to/about him. He was taking crap for not doing anything, so he ran up and threw a waterjet, then returned to our base. (until then he had 0 damage, 0 healing done). His comment - it's all about the math.

    I scoffed. How could he feel that way?? Syrely he knew the rewards would be greater by participating, even if it was another lost cause, on the way to a 3-0 steamroller by the bad guys...


    ...


    ...then, I look at the end of the match. Well, I'm right. He did get less favor.

    ...30 points less. My total, fighting and dying in the mid and at the carriers, was 1020 favor. His, for not taking any action (well, OK, one waterjet): 980 favor.

    So, yeah. I learned that I don't even have to participate in the silly warfronts - it doesn't have any bearing on your favor, really.

    Honestly, I don't know what to do about this. If you make it more participation-based (say, killing blows or damage done or something) then I, with my gear and skill level, am going to fall even further behind the curve, and the guys with the uber-gear are just going to rake even more favor, so that's not good.

    But still, if you're in a WF, shouldn't you... I dunno.... be taking part in some way?

    Opnions?
    Last edited by jeffreyac; 08-13-2011 at 01:24 PM.

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    Shadowlander
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    Default well

    it indirectly matters if you participate if you can help your team win and get more favor due to that.

    however, if it's one of those games (as most are) where one side is getting rolled because of gear imbalances, then yeah, there's no point in putting in a bunch of effort for basically nothing.

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    Ascendant Cromagis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeopardydd View Post
    it indirectly matters if you participate if you can help your team win and get more favor due to that.

    however, if it's one of those games (as most are) where one side is getting rolled because of gear imbalances, then yeah, there's no point in putting in a bunch of effort for basically nothing.

    When exploited rank 8's make a premade and farm my Graveyard! I GO ALT-TAB AND POST IN FORUMS. jajajaja
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeopardydd View Post
    it indirectly matters if you participate if you can help your team win and get more favor due to that.

    however, if it's one of those games (as most are) where one side is getting rolled because of gear imbalances, then yeah, there's no point in putting in a bunch of effort for basically nothing.
    Unless, y'know, you want favor and prestige. Then you might keep going for kills instead of hiding in a corner. Usually you aren't slowing down their win by killing a couple extra guys rather than hiding under a rock, but it does actually earn you rewards versus nothing.

    If the squeaky wheel's always gettin' the grease,
    I'm totally devoted to disturbing the peace.

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    Rift Chaser jeffreyac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeopardydd View Post
    it indirectly matters if you participate if you can help your team win and get more favor due to that.

    however, if it's one of those games (as most are) where one side is getting rolled because of gear imbalances, then yeah, there's no point in putting in a bunch of effort for basically nothing.
    ...and this is what I've always believed. This guy, from the start, was a zero-participant.

    I at least like to see how we do before I give up the ship...

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    General of Telara phyraxian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuseAQM View Post
    Unless, y'know, you want favor and prestige. Then you might keep going for kills instead of hiding in a corner. Usually you aren't slowing down their win by killing a couple extra guys rather than hiding under a rock, but it does actually earn you rewards versus nothing.
    Assuming you can get a kill. I've had plenty of games where they had 40+ kills and we had maybe 1, couple games with zero kills from our side.

    Eventually you realize all you're doing is feeding them favor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phyraxian View Post
    Assuming you can get a kill. I've had plenty of games where they had 40+ kills and we had maybe 1, couple games with zero kills from our side.

    Eventually you realize all you're doing is feeding them favor.
    I had some WS experiences this morning where people were standing around on the spawn point, saying, "Why feed them favor?"

    I mounted up, and ran around the back of our home camp, then up the side back to their camp. Turned out most of the enemy were either fighting in the middle or standing below our spawn point. I got back to their stones unmolested, and even managed to loot one.

    Of course, I'm an r3 mage, so I'm not terribly suitable for ninjaing stones solo. I got killed soon after I got to the point where I got flagged on the map. Still, if I had been able to convince a couple others to join me, maybe we could have been successful getting a stone or two out.

    Just saying that sometimes there are more options, even when outgunned, other than feeding favor or sitting on our thumbs.
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

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    Era
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    I've more than once come out with top damage, killing blows, and the most carriers killed...win or lose, I get easily 15-20% less favor. It's not from the guild perk since we have it 3/3. It happens on my rogue too...

    Not sure how favor is calculated, but there's something a bit off about it at the moment.
    Era - Defiant - Byriel
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  9. #9
    General of Telara phyraxian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymeric View Post
    I had some WS experiences this morning where people were standing around on the spawn point, saying, "Why feed them favor?"

    I mounted up, and ran around the back of our home camp, then up the side back to their camp. Turned out most of the enemy were either fighting in the middle or standing below our spawn point. I got back to their stones unmolested, and even managed to loot one.

    Of course, I'm an r3 mage, so I'm not terribly suitable for ninjaing stones solo. I got killed soon after I got to the point where I got flagged on the map. Still, if I had been able to convince a couple others to join me, maybe we could have been successful getting a stone or two out.

    Just saying that sometimes there are more options, even when outgunned, other than feeding favor or sitting on our thumbs.
    I've tried that before also, but if the other team can destroy us then it isn't that hard for them to intercept you and kill you. If you're getting rolled there isn't much you can do.

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    Era
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymeric View Post
    I had some WS experiences this morning where people were standing around on the spawn point, saying, "Why feed them favor?"

    I mounted up, and ran around the back of our home camp, then up the side back to their camp. Turned out most of the enemy were either fighting in the middle or standing below our spawn point. I got back to their stones unmolested, and even managed to loot one.

    Of course, I'm an r3 mage, so I'm not terribly suitable for ninjaing stones solo. I got killed soon after I got to the point where I got flagged on the map. Still, if I had been able to convince a couple others to join me, maybe we could have been successful getting a stone or two out.

    Just saying that sometimes there are more options, even when outgunned, other than feeding favor or sitting on our thumbs.
    Exactly. For example, in Codex people keep yelling "WE NEED CODEX YOU NOOBS" ...and meanwhile we're being dominated as our team goes one by one into the slaughter that is Codex. Every time I can convince people to grab the other 3 while keeping Codex distracted, we've either won or barely lost because there was too much of a lead.

    Protip: being a sheep is a sure way to lose a lot of games.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Era View Post
    Exactly. For example, in Codex people keep yelling "WE NEED CODEX YOU NOOBS" ...and meanwhile we're being dominated as our team goes one by one into the slaughter that is Codex. Every time I can convince people to grab the other 3 while keeping Codex distracted, we've either won or barely lost because there was too much of a lead.

    Protip: being a sheep is a sure way to lose a lot of games.
    Yeah. I've been in Codex before where we held all three non-Dex points, and were winning... until everyone decided we really had to have Dex.

    One of the big problems I have as r3, is that it makes most sense for me to run support since I can do a lot more by healing, ccing, and purging than trying to do direct damage. That means I have to stick with the herd to be effective, but the herd is often doing things like overextending past the middle of WS or all running for Dex instead of holding the three points that we've shown we can defend.

    Trying to convince people to do something other than what they are currently doing seems to be a losing proposition more often than not.

    So... I don't know. You're happy when people are smart, and you shrug off when everyone runs off to do something silly. It helps to be able to say, "Ah well, maybe next WF."
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

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    I go into any pug warfront just hoping i can convince whoever got in first to mark enemy healers. Expecting anything more that that will give you an ulcer.
    Griefing - This refers to players who do not play the game as it was intended, but instead seek to harass other players as their main focal point. This includes stalking or attempting to kill another player's character that has no means of recourse within the game. To "grief" simply means that you are trying to negatively impact the game play experience of another player. A player on the opposite faction cannot be griefed. It is perfectly acceptable to take actions in order to get a player of the opposite faction killed using whatever means possible.

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    Plane Touched INCdex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phyraxian View Post
    Assuming you can get a kill. I've had plenty of games where they had 40+ kills and we had maybe 1, couple games with zero kills from our side.

    Eventually you realize all you're doing is feeding them favor.
    Had a series of these matches last night. We'd have a total of 1 kill the entire match while the enemy had 40+.

    Sooner or later you realize it's a lost cause and you're out geared/played meaning you can either continue to fail and reward premade geared pug stomps or force them to end the match instead of farming you.

    It's quite obvious what the real problem in level 50 pvp is and that is there being no separate tiers. 15-49 there were several tiers of pvp warfronts and matches were either usually close or you were at least a threat to any player in them. That is lost on level 50 pvp equaling terrible matches that cause players to stop playing during them because there is no point to do so.

    Raging at people on your team who don't suicide, encourage, and reward premades is just sad. If I'm not having fun at all with no chance of there being fun you better believe I'm not going to reward the enemy for that.
    Last edited by INCdex; 08-13-2011 at 03:56 PM.

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    Era
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    Quote Originally Posted by INCdex View Post
    Had a series of these matches last night. We'd have a total of 1 kill the entire match while the enemy had 40+.

    Sooner or later you realize it's a lost cause and you're out geared/played meaning you can either continue to fail and reward premade geared pug stomps or force them to end the match instead of farming you.

    It's quite obvious what the real problem in level 50 pvp is and that is there being no separate tiers. 15-49 there were several tiers of pvp warfronts and matches were either usually close or you were at least a threat to any player in them. That is lost on level 50 pvp equaling terrible matches that cause players to stop playing during them because there is no point to do so.

    Raging at people on your team who don't suicide, encourage, and reward premades is just sad. If I'm not having fun at all with no chance of there being fun you better believe I'm not going to reward the enemy for that.
    Yeah, I love PvP pre-50 because even though the brackets are 10 levels and there's always the gear issue there, it's not nearly as bad when comparing p1 to p8 or something. I can easily kill a player 5+ levels higher than me...it's more of a challenge, but I don't get facerolled by trying (except for specific soul combinations which I avoid in the first place).
    Era - Defiant - Byriel
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    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Era View Post
    Yeah, I love PvP pre-50 because even though the brackets are 10 levels and there's always the gear issue there, it's not nearly as bad when comparing p1 to p8 or something. I can easily kill a player 5+ levels higher than me...it's more of a challenge, but I don't get facerolled by trying (except for specific soul combinations which I avoid in the first place).
    Exactly. 20-39 is an absolute delight of balance and fun.

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