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Thread: You need to fix pvp in this game

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default You need to fix pvp in this game

    Hi , been pvp'ing for a while in Rift and have many qualms with it. My basis of comparison is WoW pvp, while I do not play that any longer, it does many things right (but not all). I achieved gladiator multiple seasons before quitting.

    First and foremost, the gap between the different levels of gear is far too high. Going into WF's with R1 gear is a pain because you will get 1 shot constantly by people in R6+ gear - this would be akin to WoW releasing 7 seasons of arena gear at once. The best solution to this is to make the gear gap MUCH SMALLER if you're releasing this many sets of gear at once

    Melee/cloth caster disparity. Is it your intention for melee to spam 2 buttons with a macro nonstop? This takes no skill and is far too effective. In WoW, you get your partner to peel for you or you do a peel yourself. MELEE HAS TOO MUCH UPTIME AND IS DIFFICULT TO STOP. Warrior charge 1 button macro 1 button macro 80% health gone? Is this intended? Even WoW is not this ******ed. Because of the messed up DR's in this game , half the time if I try to peel someone they are immune. While I don't like WoW anymore, their DR system works - I presume in rift EVERYTHING shares DR with EVERYTHING. That is frankly, stupid. There has to be a better balance of being CC'ed too much and having too much uptime. Melee is an unstoppable nightmare atm. (warriors)

    Burst damage is insanely high. I saw warriors got a nerf which is a step in the right direction, however I think the better approach is to adjust root immunities and modify the diminishing returns system. High damage is fine if a melee can connect. BEING UNPEELABLE IS NOT OK. We learned this from WoW season 5 Death knights. Instead of nerfing warrior damage, MAKE THEM PEELABLE. Get RID of the root immunity talents!

    Lastly, what the HELL is up with the mage design? Mages have the same damage as everyone else but way worse survivability. You need to figure out whether you want this class to be high damage, low survivability, currently right now it looks like chlorolocks are the build to be, of course you can't do any damage but its almost the best way to survive an unstoppable unpeelable melee. You need to figure out what you want with this class, the squishy design doesn't work if they do LESS damage than other classes.

    Bottom line is that the gear disparity is TOO HIGH. Releasing 8 sets of gear, ok, thats fine, but modify the stats such that its not IMPOSSIBLE to compete at R1-R2.
    Last edited by velias; 08-13-2011 at 04:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by velias View Post
    Hi , been pvp'ing for a while in Rift and have many qualms with it. My basis of comparison is WoW pvp, while I do not play that any longer, it does many things right (but not all). I achieved gladiator multiple seasons before quitting.

    First and foremost, the gap between the different levels of gear is far too high. Going into WF's with R1 gear is a pain because you will get 1 shot constantly by people in R6+ gear - this would be akin to WoW releasing 7 seasons of arena gear at once. The best solution to this is to make the gear gap MUCH SMALLER if you're releasing this many sets of gear at once

    Melee/cloth caster disparity. Is it your intention for melee to spam 2 buttons with a macro nonstop? This takes no skill and is far too effective. In WoW, you get your partner to peel for you or you do a peel yourself. MELEE HAS TOO MUCH UPTIME AND IS DIFFICULT TO STOP. Warrior charge 1 button macro 1 button macro 80% health gone? Is this intended? Even WoW is not this ******ed. Because of the messed up DR's in this game , half the time if I try to peel someone they are immune. While I don't like WoW anymore, their DR system works - I presume in rift EVERYTHING shares DR with EVERYTHING. That is frankly, stupid. There has to be a better balance of being CC'ed too much and having too much uptime. Melee is an unstoppable nightmare atm. (warriors)

    Burst damage is insanely high. I saw warriors got a nerf which is a step in the right direction, however I think the better approach is to adjust root immunities and modify the diminishing returns system. High damage is fine if a melee can connect. BEING UNPEELABLE IS NOT OK. We learned this from WoW season 5 Death knights. Instead of nerfing warrior damage, MAKE THEM PEELABLE. Get RID of the root immunity talents!

    Lastly, what the HELL is up with the mage design? Mages have the same damage as everyone else but way worse survivability. You need to figure out whether you want this class to be high damage, low survivability, currently right now it looks like chlorolocks are the build to be, of course you can't do any damage but its almost the best way to survive an unstoppable unpeelable melee. You need to figure out what you want with this class, the squishy design doesn't work if they do LESS damage than other classes.

    Bottom line is that the gear disparity is TOO HIGH. Releasing 8 sets of gear, ok, thats fine, but modify the stats such that its not IMPOSSIBLE to compete at R1-R2.
    Too late. Far too late.

  3. #3
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    Much much much too late.

    Trions rep in regards to PvP is already ruined.

    Fact is WoW has better pvp,

    Which is sad because Rift copied WoW.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notnice View Post
    Much much much too late.

    Trions rep in regards to PvP is already ruined.

    Fact is WoW has better pvp,

    Which is sad because Rift copied WoW.
    They've boxed themselves into a corner. The gear gap is ludicrous and extreme. They won't touch the shinies because all the "I've earned the right to two shot you" folks would scream. So, they nerf classes.

    The thing that I find most absurd is that this has been obvious for a long time. So their response has been "Let's nerf classes again and release NEW ludicrously overpowering levels of shinies."

    It's like treating a burn by putting your hand on the stove.

  5. #5
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by velias View Post
    Hi , been pvp'ing for a while in Rift and have many qualms with it. My basis of comparison is WoW pvp, while I do not play that any longer, it does many things right (but not all). I achieved gladiator multiple seasons before quitting.

    First and foremost, the gap between the different levels of gear is far too high. Going into WF's with R1 gear is a pain because you will get 1 shot constantly by people in R6+ gear - this would be akin to WoW releasing 7 seasons of arena gear at once. The best solution to this is to make the gear gap MUCH SMALLER if you're releasing this many sets of gear at once

    Melee/cloth caster disparity. Is it your intention for melee to spam 2 buttons with a macro nonstop? This takes no skill and is far too effective. In WoW, you get your partner to peel for you or you do a peel yourself. MELEE HAS TOO MUCH UPTIME AND IS DIFFICULT TO STOP. Warrior charge 1 button macro 1 button macro 80% health gone? Is this intended? Even WoW is not this ******ed. Because of the messed up DR's in this game , half the time if I try to peel someone they are immune. While I don't like WoW anymore, their DR system works - I presume in rift EVERYTHING shares DR with EVERYTHING. That is frankly, stupid. There has to be a better balance of being CC'ed too much and having too much uptime. Melee is an unstoppable nightmare atm. (warriors)

    Burst damage is insanely high. I saw warriors got a nerf which is a step in the right direction, however I think the better approach is to adjust root immunities and modify the diminishing returns system. High damage is fine if a melee can connect. BEING UNPEELABLE IS NOT OK. We learned this from WoW season 5 Death knights. Instead of nerfing warrior damage, MAKE THEM PEELABLE. Get RID of the root immunity talents!

    Lastly, what the HELL is up with the mage design? Mages have the same damage as everyone else but way worse survivability. You need to figure out whether you want this class to be high damage, low survivability, currently right now it looks like chlorolocks are the build to be, of course you can't do any damage but its almost the best way to survive an unstoppable unpeelable melee. You need to figure out what you want with this class, the squishy design doesn't work if they do LESS damage than other classes.

    Bottom line is that the gear disparity is TOO HIGH. Releasing 8 sets of gear, ok, thats fine, but modify the stats such that its not IMPOSSIBLE to compete at R1-R2.

    I agree completely, I've loved PvP in every other MMO. This one? Just flat out sucks, I PvE and as a hardcore PvPer usually that hurts me.

    Hopefully Trion will catch on and maybe in 6 months or so fix at least some of these issues so that I can start queuing for warfronts again...

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Too late =/

    It is awful and biased. Not to mention buffs like Blood Thirst pushing the win margin too far.

    Ah well I will qq over here quietly =)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karmana View Post
    Too late =/

    It is awful and biased. Not to mention buffs like Blood Thirst pushing the win margin too far.

    Ah well I will qq over here quietly =)
    We the people agree and will join you with the above mentioned qq.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Madval's Avatar
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    Too late.
    At least the same thing that is in wow is nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. That's why I quitted wow, constant nerf and no clear sight of what the f*ck are they doing with classes !
    http://www.reverbnation.com/madvalrockatanskytherevenge

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notnice View Post
    Much much much too late.

    Trions rep in regards to PvP is already ruined.

    Fact is WoW has better pvp,

    Which is sad because Rift copied WoW.
    This is pretty saddening, I'm sick to death of wow because I played it for years and while it has problems, such as too many interrupts and class homogenization + op classes like warlocks/shamans, its definitely not as bad as rift.

    The FIRST PROBLEM for trion to fix is the gear disparity. It is ludicrous, I frankly don't care about what some Rank 8 exploiter thinks about having their gear downgraded. The other stuff needs fixing too, like DR's and excessive talents that make players unpeelable....but thats secondary to the main issue

    It will be good for the game. I honestly hope someone at Trion is listening, the gear gap makes pvp unenjoyable for a lot of players.
    Last edited by velias; 08-13-2011 at 09:02 AM.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara Vexille's Avatar
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    This is the problem with PvP in a mixed or PvE centric MMO that is 100$ targeted at the insatnt gratification demographic.

    Trion knows that when Rift "settles in" to it's run rate population (the place where subscriber numbers settle after the "gold rush" after release) PvP players will resentment a small % of their overall playerbase.

    because of this and all the limits of a 2 "faction" system, they know it will be impossible to make PvP distinct from the PvE mechanics in any tangible way.

    This is the price in a game that targets the bulk...

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vexille View Post
    This is the problem with PvP in a mixed or PvE centric MMO that is 100$ targeted at the insatnt gratification demographic.

    Trion knows that when Rift "settles in" to it's run rate population (the place where subscriber numbers settle after the "gold rush" after release) PvP players will resentment a small % of their overall playerbase.

    because of this and all the limits of a 2 "faction" system, they know it will be impossible to make PvP distinct from the PvE mechanics in any tangible way.

    This is the price in a game that targets the bulk...
    Well this is why I had high hopes in the "pvp soul". That tree has the potential to fix a lot of the shortcomings with a pvp/pve mmo, but there are far too many other problems in the game.

    First of all, too many dispels. This is a problem in WoW and they finally made baby steps toward fixing it, such as mage spellsteal costing a lot more mana now. A dps should NOT be able ti dispel 10 debuffs off of themselves.

    Secondly, there is a delicate balance between the amount of roots/snares/cc and melee uptime. Currently it is damn near IMPOSSIBLE to peel a melee due to the excessive amount of talents that remove snares / debuffs and the screwed up DR system. High melee damage is an ongoing issue in WoW. The difference is, most of the time in WoW you can COUNTER high melee damage with snares or roots. YOU CANT DO THAT IN RIFT - the DR / snare-root immunity is completely screwed up.

    ...But i've said all this before. The biggest problem by FAR is the ridiculous gear gap. This is honestly game breaking for newcomers to the game and needs to be fixed, even if it means nerfing the gearsets on some higher ranked gear.
    Last edited by velias; 08-13-2011 at 09:37 AM.

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