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Thread: The Rank differential is too much

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    Rift Disciple Ezekielplus1's Avatar
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    Default The Rank differential is too much

    So with the recent addition of R8, Warfronts and PVP in general is really not fun at all. I'm a casual player that doesn't really have time to farm all the ranks & gear yet. No big deal, I expect to be at a disadvantage in a situation where time invested rules the day. R6's were bad, but right before 1.4 I had started to collect a little r4 gear and put up a good fight at points.

    Now with the r8's pouring into the battle it's nothing short of obscene. 5 people to kill one warrior? Not to mention he kills 4 of the 5 before going down. One of which I actually watched him 1GCD that person down. Opening on r8 Assassins who turn around and hand my arse to me, but not because I played poorly or they played that well. Not to mention running into entire teams of r8's.

    I understand that these people have farmed this favor / prestige (if they didn't exploit their way to r8), but the pvp tab is becoming less and less of an option for me. I am not the only one feeling this way. Pretty soon the cannon fodder that the r8's are stroking their e-peen to won't be there.

    It's my opinion that something needs to be done. A few ideas (nothing new here)
    -Arenas or Rated WF's (give the top tier something to do)
    -Separate Ques based on rank
    -Add a counter measure for the new "group" Que (3,2,1 Que oh look we're a premade)
    -provide some sort of buff or debuff (pre 50 you get a buff for walking into a bracket on the lower side of the leveling bracket. Why can't that be done for Ranks. Ranks are actually more of a disparity than levels ever were.)

  2. #2
    Champion AngelOfTheGuardians's Avatar
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    Incoming "l2p, pay your dues, you deserve to be fodder to my high rank awesomeness, but I really want competitive PvP (nevermind the fact that they only PvP to faceroll lower ranks)"
    Last edited by AngelOfTheGuardians; 08-12-2011 at 05:57 AM.


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    There are competitive PvP guilds out there...so yeah, they'll melt face when they encounter casuals. All the ideas you've provided have been rehashed in about 20+ forum posts. Trion needs to fix it...yeah maybe. If you are looking for advice...nothing anyone can tell you will be enough. QQ will still happen when casuals meet competitive geared out PvP'ers.

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    Champion AngelOfTheGuardians's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethwar View Post
    There are competitive PvP guilds out there...so yeah, they'll melt face when they encounter casuals. All the ideas you've provided have been rehashed in about 20+ forum posts. Trion needs to fix it...yeah maybe. If you are looking for advice...nothing anyone can tell you will be enough. QQ will still happen when casuals meet competitive geared out PvP'ers.
    Not if they have a chance of actually killing said geared player. That is not possible at the moment if you aren't rank 6 or higher. Stop equating casual player to bad player please. Casual simply means that they don't have a lot of time to spend playing the game. A player who plays all day could still be bad at PvP (but they would still win because of the facerolling power of r6 gear).
    Last edited by AngelOfTheGuardians; 08-12-2011 at 06:08 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelOfTheGuardians View Post
    Not if they have a chance of actually killing said geared player. That is not possible at the moment if you aren't rank 6 or higher. Stop equating casual player to bad player please. Casual simply means that they don't have a lot of time to spend playing the game. A player who plays all day could still be bad at PvP (but they would still win because of the facerolling power of r6 gear).
    Sorry, didnt catch anywhere on my post where I said that casuals = bad player. L2Read? I'll summarize my post to you, make it easier for ya I guess:

    1. Competitive PVP'ers will have skill and gear.
    2. Casuals do not have a chance vs competitive geared out PvP'ers
    3. QQ will happen
    4. Nothing anyone says with good advice will keep the QQ off the forums
    5. This same post has been rehashed 20+ times...nothing new to see or learn.

    Ok?

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    Ascendant Puzzlebox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelOfTheGuardians View Post
    Not if they have a chance of actually killing said geared player. That is not possible at the moment if you aren't rank 6 or higher. Stop equating casual player to bad player please. Casual simply means that they don't have a lot of time to spend playing the game. A player who plays all day could still be bad at PvP (but they would still win because of the facerolling power of r6 gear).
    What Deth was saying was that equal skill, the better gear wins. Even lucky crit RNG won't give you a cheese win against a significantly higher ranked player.

    Even mismatch comps, the better gear will probably win. A R6-8 warrior without breakfree will light up a Rank 2-4 Sin, regardless that Sin's are a rogues nightmare.

    So he's saying, the reality is, if you're going against geared and good, you don't have a chance. It should be fixed. But it's not, just deal with it for now and grit your teeth through the ranks.
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    Champion AngelOfTheGuardians's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethwar View Post
    Sorry, didnt catch anywhere on my post where I said that casuals = bad player. L2Read? I'll summarize my post to you, make it easier for ya I guess:

    1. Competitive PVP'ers will have skill and gear.
    2. Casuals do not have a chance vs competitive geared out PvP'ers
    3. QQ will happen
    4. Nothing anyone says with good advice will keep the QQ off the forums
    5. This same post has been rehashed 20+ times...nothing new to see or learn.

    Ok?
    Well I figured the only casual players that will complain if they have a fighting chance will be bad players. Otherwise, they would figure out how to counter the opponent. Of course a low rank doesn't stand a chance at all now, but it's not for reasons you think. Skill has nothing to do with r6s facerolling fresh 50s. I see what you're saying, but there's never going to be a time when everyone is max rank so there can be fair PvP where the skill of a player is really tested.
    Last edited by AngelOfTheGuardians; 08-12-2011 at 06:25 AM.


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    Ascendant Puzzlebox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelOfTheGuardians View Post
    Well I figured the only casual players that will complain if they have a fighting chance will be bad players. Otherwise, they would figure out how to counter the opponent. Of course a low rank doesn't stand a chance at all now, but it's not for reasons you think. Skill has nothing to do with r6s facerolling fresh 50s.
    You keep on interpreting his posts as him saying that R6's outskill casuals as a rule of thumb. I have no idea why.
    r40 puzzlybox <rise of mayhem> whoo whoo
    r40 pizzabox wheeeeeeeee

    puzzlebox + apoth = <3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL4L4Uv5rf0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzlebox View Post
    What Deth was saying was that equal skill, the better gear wins. Even lucky crit RNG won't give you a cheese win against a significantly higher ranked player.

    Even mismatch comps, the better gear will probably win. A R6-8 warrior without breakfree will light up a Rank 2-4 Sin, regardless that Sin's are a rogues nightmare.

    So he's saying, the reality is, if you're going against geared and good, you don't have a chance. It should be fixed. But it's not, just deal with it for now and grit your teeth through the ranks.
    Damn it puzzle ... I need to have:

    A. More patience

    or

    B. Diplomatic skills

    Either way PB Summary > Deth Summary.

  10. #10
    Champion AngelOfTheGuardians's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzlebox View Post
    You keep on interpreting his posts as him saying that R6's outskill casuals as a rule of thumb. I have no idea why.
    No, I'm saying that the skill of a player won't be tested until everyone is the same rank (or there are separate ques for ranks), so skill is not really a factor in anything right now.
    Last edited by AngelOfTheGuardians; 08-12-2011 at 06:27 AM.


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  11. #11
    Champion AngelOfTheGuardians's Avatar
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    I get what he's saying. Yes, if everyone had a fair chance of beating someone, the more skilled would win. I'm saying that putting a lot of time into the game doesn't necessarily mean that they will get better. I interpreted his post as saying most of the hardcore players are more skilled in the first place due to the time they put in, so casual players will still lose and complain. That is not necessarily true or possible to prove until everyone has a fighting chance.
    Last edited by AngelOfTheGuardians; 08-12-2011 at 06:36 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelOfTheGuardians View Post
    No, I'm saying that the skill of a player won't be tested until everyone is the same rank (or there are separate ques for ranks), so skill is not really a factor in anything right now.
    You are describing a different game bud. This is RIFT...gear makes a difference. You can petition TRION all you want...at the end of the day this is a gear progression game as are most MMOs I have ever played. If you want to prove you have leet skillz either:

    A. Play another game

    or

    B. Duel players your own rank and get your fix of e-peen.

    If you are out in the world, you shouldnt be alone if under geared cause there are beastly players out there looking to eat you for lunch. And if you encounter a geared out PvP'er and he is facerolling 5 of ya...well I think he has at the very least some skill.

    Edit - heard Bloodless on Molinar the other day as I was in IPP - his yell went something like this: "I will not rest until I can solo all 3 of ya!!!" That is the mentality of the type of player you are facing.

    Deth.
    Last edited by Dethwar; 08-12-2011 at 06:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelOfTheGuardians View Post
    I get what he's saying. Yes, if everyone had a fair chance of beating someone, the more skilled would win. I'm saying that putting a lot of time into the game doesn't necessarily mean that they will get better. I interpreted his post as saying most of the hardcore players are more skilled in the first place due to the time they put in. That is not necessarily true or possible to prove until everyone has a fighting chance.
    You have to see it through his perspective.

    The thing is, there is gear parity at the highest level. And premades bash heads against each other. I've personally gone against Dethwar and his group, Pain Train, for the better part of a month. They're always close, intense, games.

    And Dethwar and Pain Train got to butt heads with Powerx, part of the self-proclaimed best PvP group in the world, who can actually back up that claim to some degree with a great amount of skill and coordination between his guys.

    I'd say, from my experience and random guesstimation, that there are 1-3 premades of note on either faction per battle shard that are a cut above the rest and are more than pug facerollers. I wouldn't necessarily say more they're more skilled, cause the skill ceiling is low in MMORPG's, and Rift especially. But their experience vastly outweighs casuals. Their coordination and teamplay vastly outweighs casuals. That's an attribute that goes beyond gear.

    Dealing with multi-R6 cleric cross-healing is a norm in those settings. Countering it with hard target switches and burning the DPS before touching the Cleric's to force them to waste their cooldowns is the status quo. But what do casuals do against multi-R6 Cleric cross-healing? They usually /dance at their spawn.

    The breadth of experience is far greater. That's where Deth is getting his correlation that time invested for competitive PvPers = they'll continually get better.

    So from our perspective, 'skill' in the broadest sense plays a huge factor in our everyday WF experience.

    It's why there is little sympathy from the max prestige rankers. There is relative balance and relative parity in this game. You just have to reach that point to get competitive. Is it fair to have to be abused for months if you play casually to get to that point? No.

    But there is an even plateau where skill and execution are the key determinants to a win.
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    Champion AngelOfTheGuardians's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzlebox View Post
    You have to see it through his perspective.

    The thing is, there is gear parity at the highest level. And premades bash heads against each other. I've personally gone against Dethwar and his group, Pain Train, for the better part of a month. They're always close, intense, games.

    And Dethwar and Pain Train got to butt heads with Powerx, part of the self-proclaimed best PvP group in the world, who can actually back up that claim to some degree with a great amount of skill and coordination between his guys.

    I'd say, from my experience and random guesstimation, that there are 1-3 premades of note on either faction per battle shard that are a cut above the rest and are more than pug facerollers. I wouldn't necessarily say more they're more skilled, cause the skill ceiling is low in MMORPG's, and Rift especially. But their experience vastly outweighs casuals. Their coordination and teamplay vastly outweighs casuals. That's an attribute that goes beyond gear.

    Dealing with multi-R6 cleric cross-healing is a norm in those settings. Countering it with hard target switches and burning the DPS before touching the Cleric's to force them to waste their cooldowns is the status quo. But what do casuals do against multi-R6 Cleric cross-healing? They usually /dance at their spawn.

    The breadth of experience is far greater. That's where Deth is getting his correlation that time invested for competitive PvPers = they'll continually get better.

    So from our perspective, 'skill' in the broadest sense plays a huge factor in our everyday WF experience.

    It's why there is little sympathy from the max prestige rankers. There is relative balance and relative parity in this game. You just have to reach that point to get competitive. Is it fair to have to be abused for months if you play casually to get to that point? No.

    But there is an even plateau where skill and execution are the key determinants to a win.
    I really didn't think about premade vs. premade. Yes, those special groups would demolish casuals with or without the gear advantage. For every one of those groups, though, I'd say there are far more people who need the gear advantage to look good and stay competitive.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelOfTheGuardians View Post
    I really didn't think about premade vs. premade. Yes, those special groups would demolish casuals with or without the gear advantage. For every one of those groups, though, I'd say there are far more people who need the gear advantage to look good and stay competitive.
    Oh, it's definitely fun smashing pug stompers who obviously aren't used to going against premades and just use gear/vent advantage to abuse low rank pugs.

    I just wish casuals and/or low rankers didn't demonize premades so much and realize that some of us actually prefer equal competition.
    r40 puzzlybox <rise of mayhem> whoo whoo
    r40 pizzabox wheeeeeeeee

    puzzlebox + apoth = <3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL4L4Uv5rf0

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