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Thread: Rated PvP and you: How to make Competitive pvp fair

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Quasari Nova's Avatar
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    Default Rated PvP and you: How to make Competitive pvp fair

    I know Trion is pretty much against pro PvP. I've seen many quotes over it, and I completely understand their point of view. However, for the game's pvp community to survive, there needs to be a competitiveness that far exceeds what is happening right now. Rift needs it.

    I know many people claim differently, but this game is pretty balanced for same gear competition. So honestly, keep the current system how it is as given enough time, everyone will keep balanced. Just make sure to keep the PvP gear up with the PvE gear as raids come out. Gear is a great reward for general PvP.

    Gear, however, does not need to be a reward for rated PvP. We'll assume that the people that want to do rated PvP will be willing to get the normal PvP gear, so theirs no point in unbalancing it by giving those who perform better, better gear. It's like giving a bear a chainsaw to fight a guppy>.< Instead, what is needed is something else to show off that prestige.

    What Rift has that WoW doesn't is the wardrobe, which can be a very powerful reward. The rated PvP rewards should be for the most part cosmetic. Say have a variety of costume pieces available for favor that require different rankings and are only available for a season. You could also throw in a mount, vanity pet, titles, and vanity items as well. This can go for those who are in the top percentile of the ranking at the end of a season as well. Cosmetic items prove very valuable in other games of a competitive nature(golden guns in CoD, hats and other vanity items in TF2, and armor in Halo) because they allow people to show off without unbalancing the game.

    So, we know how to keep the balance, but how do we keep people from feeding and keep queue times down? This is fairly simple. Here is a quick list of things that need to be done in order to make queue fair and fun:
    1. Only groups can queue - Very important as solo players will be a detriment to this style of gameplay.
    2. Only offer a limited window to do ranked PvP - Another important factor. With limited windows you increase the rate of queueing, thus decreasing the chance of feeding as there is no guaruntee the feeder team will get set up with the team they want. I'd say set 3 time windows a week in times that should be able to fit 90-99% of the playerbase and it should be fine.
    3. One WF per week - Preferably, I'd like a new single WF to be developped for rated play. Having a standard map is the best for competition, but if one must use existing WF please make variations where it makes sense for the factions to infight. A single WF for all rated or a single choice per week leads to more organized queueing and more matchups played.
    4. If a new WF is made, it should only be assessible in normal PvP queue as a group queue. If the other way around, then the variations should be used for group queues and allow interfaction matches to allow for practice.

    These things will do a few things for PvP in general. As I've already stated it will breathe new life into this game for the hardcore competitive PvPers. In addition it will also create a better group pvp economy. With a/n interfaction warfront/s and people wanting practice for the rated PvP windows, group queues should go up, which should decrease the chances of a premade facing a pug, in the end helping everyone. I know this might take some work, but I feel that the benefits outweigh all hatred for rated PvP that trion has.

    TLDR version:
    Cosmetic rewards
    Interfaction WF
    Limited windows for rated play
    Everyone wins

  2. #2
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    I agree wholeheartedly.

    Right now, Trion actively discourages organized PvP even though this is an MMO and it's social by nature. Imagine if the game forced you to PuG every single raid run.

    That means WFs are an unpredictable crapshoot, and I'm sure others feel the same way we do -- I crave organized, competitive PvP and would be happy to face better-geared and organized teams if it meant GOOD matches.

    And cheers on proposing cosmetic rewards, mounts, etc. There has to be a motivating factor to get people to invest time. Would people raid if no loot dropped?

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Your first sentence sums this issue up. Most of the good PVPers have already tried rift and moved on, this game caters to casuals through more ways than simply being able to AFK your way to best gear.

    "I know many people claim differently, but this game is pretty balanced for same gear competition." - Balanced does not equal competetive, this game has very low skill cap compared to many older MMOs. What is the difference between a 2500 and 2000 rated team in Wow? Casters have to juke spells since a kick/counterspell can easily make or break a game, melee have to maintain snares and line of sight casters, healers have to put up dispell protection, different classes properly utilize their CC that don't share DRs, dps classes have to know when to switch to defensive such as shield wall/vanish/AMS/ice block.

    Rift seems to go along without any of these concepts, most of the fotm dps specs have almost no way to play defensively or heal themselves, snares are almost pointless because of DRs, all types of CC share DRs, there is no point in juking casts since there are no school lockouts. The game highly favors big open areas, so people just run in and spam their few macroes until one side wins.

    Most people don't want competetive PVP in this game, when the patch changed it so that premades had to que against other premades people started crying that they are being punished for playing with friends, when in reality most of them simply enjoy beating on helpless pugs. I've never been a huge fan of Blizzard's PVP system, but compared to Rift it works extremely well. This game has an extremely long way to go if Trion wants to keep their remanining PVP players.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Quasari Nova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiei987 View Post
    Your first sentence sums this issue up. Most of the good PVPers have already tried rift and moved on, this game caters to casuals through more ways than simply being able to AFK your way to best gear.

    "I know many people claim differently, but this game is pretty balanced for same gear competition." - Balanced does not equal competetive, this game has very low skill cap compared to many older MMOs. What is the difference between a 2500 and 2000 rated team in Wow? Casters have to juke spells since a kick/counterspell can easily make or break a game, melee have to maintain snares and line of sight casters, healers have to put up dispell protection, different classes properly utilize their CC that don't share DRs, dps classes have to know when to switch to defensive such as shield wall/vanish/AMS/ice block.

    Rift seems to go along without any of these concepts, most of the fotm dps specs have almost no way to play defensively or heal themselves, snares are almost pointless because of DRs, all types of CC share DRs, there is no point in juking casts since there are no school lockouts. The game highly favors big open areas, so people just run in and spam their few macroes until one side wins.
    If you played WoW when it launch, it shared many of the things you say Rift do. The meta will evolve as the game becomes more competitive. Balance facilitates competitiveness by giving equal ground to prove who has the greater skill. It's a building block. This game isn't quite there yet, but it can be.

    Most people don't want competetive PVP in this game, when the patch changed it so that premades had to que against other premades people started crying that they are being punished for playing with friends, when in reality most of them simply enjoy beating on helpless pugs. I've never been a huge fan of Blizzard's PVP system, but compared to Rift it works extremely well. This game has an extremely long way to go if Trion wants to keep their remanining PVP players.
    Neither of us know numbers, so you cant really make this point and you seem to say that people want group together are just griefers, which is a broad generalization. If you don't like competitive pvp, fine, but don't say the game shouldn't have it when in reality PvPers have been really looking for a good pvp game for a while. I've been searching since SWG preCU and though my tastes have went more towards instance pvp than the old world pvp, I still havent found anything I really like. I like the variety Rift offers and feel that competitiveness would benefit everyone.

    Anywho, by making rewards in rated play cosmetic, you honestly have a choice whether or not you would do it. It wont hurt the casual group at all to not participate in rated play, in fact, I am of the idea it would help them as it should remove most of the group vs pug since the group queue would become fuller.
    Last edited by Quasari Nova; 08-10-2011 at 10:26 PM.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Mlaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiei987 View Post
    Most people don't want competetive PVP in this game, when the patch changed it so that premades had to que against other premades people started crying that they are being punished for playing with friends, when in reality most of them simply enjoy beating on helpless pugs. I've never been a huge fan of Blizzard's PVP system, but compared to Rift it works extremely well. This game has an extremely long way to go if Trion wants to keep their remanining PVP players.
    Not true, the only reason people are against competetive play is because everyone who suggests it has the aim or enhanced and better gear in mind. what the OP has suggested for a reward system is great as it has no impact on the balance of pvp due to gear but it allows those who do love a challanging battle to to recieve rewards to make them look a cut above the rest. PvP on a whole needs some kind of reward system for players these days and when the queues for premades were done what did we expect would happen since only reward then was fast favour for improved gear, should have provided incentive to go with queue change of a cosmetic effect and things might have been vastly different.

    not only that.. but he hasnt asked for the matches to be played at all times but at select times this means original pvp would not lose numbers for majority of the week just a few hours every now and then..
    Sureen - Conspiracy

    A post spoken from the Heart contains passion, A post spoken from the head leads to intelligent debate,
    but since the majority of what I read is full of crap I guess most talk out of thier Arse

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Quasari Nova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlaar View Post
    not only that.. but he hasnt asked for the matches to be played at all times but at select times this means original pvp would not lose numbers for majority of the week just a few hours every now and then..
    I really like the idea of windows of time to do things. It allows all sort of planning for the group as to figure out which window suits them the best and in the end gives more people on at the same time. In WoW I often see the same team more than once in the arena which is stupid. With time windows, that should eliminate that altogether.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple
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    I completely agree. I don't even know why I still play this game with its complete lack of competitiveness. Cosmetic rewards? Its genius and I commend you sir. Does not upset the balance and actually adds some competition.

    Just one thing; its not just the hardcore pvpers who want this. Casuals yearn for competitive pvp too.
    Last edited by Deicidium; 08-12-2011 at 03:38 AM.

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