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Thread: Prestige Gear/Valor Possible Idea For Some Balance

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Prestige Gear/Valor Possible Idea For Some Balance

    This may have been brought up before, I don't know. I'm sure people will flame me, and honestly, I couldn't care less. I'm a big boy.

    I've seen a lot of complaining about balance based on Prestige gear and Valor. I completely agree with the complaining. It takes away from the "skill" factor and puts almost the entire emphasis on the gear somebody has acquired based almost completely on time played. While I agree that time played should be worth something, that advantage shouldn't be so huge against people that are just coming into the level 50 range and going up against people they effectively can't scratch because of the huge amount of valor they are packing. The gear already has huge armor and stat boosts, the Valor on top of that is pretty much ridiculous.

    Two possible solutions or at least ideas that might help.

    1-Make Warfronts at level 50 tiered to different levels of Prestige. One tier could be Ranks 1-4 or 5 and the next could be 6-8, or do it in three tiers, 1-3, 4-6, 7-8. The so called "hardcore" pvp'ers say they win based on skill and not their gear. Well, this would be your chance to prove it. I can't see how this would not be fun for the higher ranks as well as obviously the lower ranks. More evenly matched fights should clearly be more fun and instead of getting blitzed to death in 3 seconds maybe people would find that strategy in fights would come back into play. This would only be done in Warfronts of course. World PVP is still at your own risk and if you wander out there where the monsters are then you might get eaten.

    2-Get rid of Valor altogether. The armor and stats that are on the top tier levels of Prestige gear are already far and above the ranks below them in armor and stats. They don't need the Valor on top of that. The Valor just makes it impossible for those new to 50 or in the lower ranks to have any chance against the higher ranks. This might also help bring in some PVE people that haven't wanted to try much PVP.

    Before all the flame throwers start yelling about a new level 50 whining or something, or that I am a PVE player that is scared of PVP I will tell you that I play on a PVP server and I have leveled almost entirely through PVP and I am Rank 4, so I'm basically right in the middle, and they could split up the tiers and I could very well wind up on the bottom end of one of the tiers and still be getting face smashed.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    I agree with this 100%. Pvp as a fresh 50 is less than fun. Regardless of how you spec, you spend more time in the backfield watching or waiting to respawn than actually fighting. People post all the time that you just have to grind it out or pay your dues until you are higher in valor yourself. This is sounds like what people from the top would to someone starting at the bottom. I don't believe anyone should get anything for free and I agree people that play more should have some advantage from their time spent, but it shouldn't feel like a player is punished because they are a fresh 50.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Going to bump this just because I hope people see it. I know it's long but to me it makes sense.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    Going to disagree with this (the remove valor portion). Gear/skill progression etc is a big part of why I do anything in a MMORPG. Getting bigger better more uber gear is a big thing. Applies to PvE and PvP for me. Where I think Rift is failing is options as a PvPer.

    We have 4 Wfs with no segregation. This means fresh 50's are going to go in and fight rank (now 8's) The issue is not the gear, but the lack of segregation. World PvP is pretty limited. Essentially you go to the 1 pvp quest area, or go to the 1 spawned PvP rift. Now you once again have all the high geared people in 1 spot and the new 50's are face rolled again

    Limited options for new 50s to PvP and being forced into battles with players that so out gear them that it is pretty pointless.

    What I would prefer to see instead. WFs broken into ranks 1/2 3/4 5/6 7/8. If that is to much then at least 1/2/3 4/5/6 7/8. Wolrd PvP is another whole kettle of fish. Without having mutliple objectives/zones/reasons to world PvP, we will continue to be grouped all together with no options and get hammered. If world PvP had multiple PvP zones (not PvE quest zones) with multiple objectives (tons of keeps, etc.) where people can go in smaller groups and get favor from different objectives then less likely to always be hammered by the higher ranks.

    Higher ranks will always have advantages, and players who can play more etc will have them, but I do not see a reason to take that away because some players are not there yet. Give options to earn favor vs removing the rewards of favor
    Last edited by spiro; 08-10-2011 at 08:10 AM.

  5. #5
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granitejaw View Post
    This may have been brought up before, I don't know. I'm sure people will flame me, and honestly, I couldn't care less. I'm a big boy.
    I find it hard to read any post that starts off this way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbourne View Post
    All I see is your team gettin rolled but managing to win anyway.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker DiamondDog's Avatar
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    Default ..

    As long as you have a plan to balance the great gear that you get from PVE as well, because I dont PVE.

    So do you plan to keep me competitive with gear without my EVER entering a dungeon- EVER????
    Rogue: 0/0 HK or any other PVE content. Over 120+ days /played in PVP content exclusively as an Assassin. (yes, 2800 hours)
    Yes, I know MM and NB rule. No, I don't want to switch to a MM. Yes, I know they are the best. No, again, I'd rather improve Assassins.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker DiamondDog's Avatar
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    What I would prefer to see instead. WFs broken into ranks 1/2 3/4 5/6 7/8. If that is to much then at least 1/2/3 4/5/6 7/8.
    Sure. And same with the world. I want a separate Stillmoor for rank 1s and 8s.
    Rogue: 0/0 HK or any other PVE content. Over 120+ days /played in PVP content exclusively as an Assassin. (yes, 2800 hours)
    Yes, I know MM and NB rule. No, I don't want to switch to a MM. Yes, I know they are the best. No, again, I'd rather improve Assassins.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    will try and be a bit clearer
    1/2/3

    4/5/6

    7/8

    Breaking down this way for WFs would at least have people somewhat at less of a disadvantage then what exists in WFs right now. 3 brackets would not be to hard on ques, put more server clusters together if needed

    "Sure. And same with the world. I want a separate Stillmoor for rank 1s and 8s. "

    I am guessing you did not bother to read what I viewed as world pvp issues

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    I would think ranks 1-3 together, 4-6 together, and 7-8 together(when released).

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    I dont think getting rid of valor would do much good, beacuse the top raiders could rule the WF's.

    I think making 2 if not 3 brackets n warfronts would help a lot.

    Also make the rank 1-4 gear way cheaper so when we hit rank 3 or 4 we can gear up and not feel like we should have been saving favor for rank 5-6.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alardmik View Post
    I dont think getting rid of valor would do much good, beacuse the top raiders could rule the WF's.

    I think making 2 if not 3 brackets n warfronts would help a lot.

    Also make the rank 1-4 gear way cheaper so when we hit rank 3 or 4 we can gear up and not feel like we should have been saving favor for rank 5-6.
    Not bashing or anything but I have had way more than enough favor to pre buy the tokens for my next rank all along.
    I don't think they are too expensive. Maybe the 5 and 6 are but no problem yet.

  12. #12
    Banned overbyte's Avatar
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    This topic has been brought up before, and discussed quite a bit. In short, you will not find anyone who will state that being a fresh level 50 in warfronts is truly engaging experience. Everyone know it is not; what people tend to disagree on is whether something should be done about it, or to simply take your lumps and move on.

    Your solutions have been mentioned before, and, while they seem good at first, they have some severe setbacks that make the solutions non-viable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Granitejaw View Post
    1-Make Warfronts at level 50 tiered to different levels of Prestige. One tier could be Ranks 1-4 or 5 and the next could be 6-8, or do it in three tiers, 1-3, 4-6, 7-8. The so called "hardcore" pvp'ers say they win based on skill and not their gear. Well, this would be your chance to prove it. I can't see how this would not be fun for the higher ranks as well as obviously the lower ranks. More evenly matched fights should clearly be more fun and instead of getting blitzed to death in 3 seconds maybe people would find that strategy in fights would come back into play. This would only be done in Warfronts of course. World PVP is still at your own risk and if you wander out there where the monsters are then you might get eaten.
    The number of people at the higher ranks is much smaller than one would think. This will tend to be the case in the foreseeable future. Though the segregation based upon gear will make the matches more fun, at the higher gear levels where the more dedicated (read: insane) players are, there will be little competition and few matches. The only way to resolve this would be to place the upper bracket into some kind of queue that spanned all the servers. I do not think Trion is considering this (maybe they are).

    Quote Originally Posted by Granitejaw View Post
    2-Get rid of Valor altogether. The armor and stats that are on the top tier levels of Prestige gear are already far and above the ranks below them in armor and stats. They don't need the Valor on top of that. The Valor just makes it impossible for those new to 50 or in the lower ranks to have any chance against the higher ranks. This might also help bring in some PVE people that haven't wanted to try much PVP.
    This is where we can look back at WOW and see where this goes wrong. What ends up happening is that you wind up blurring the lines between PVE and PVP too much. In order to be the best at PVP, you need to get the top end raiding PVE gear, since, aside from focus, there will be no differentiating stats between the two styles of games. WOW had this problem for ages. Players would get just enough resilience (valor) to be somewhat viable, then load up on PVE raiding gear and destroy people in arenas and battlegrounds. This just infuriates PVP players.

    The other problem you wind up with, at the low end, is the opposite effect. People who want to PVE will find that there are some very nice starter gear options if you do a little PVP. So, then you will have PVE people who will do a little PVP to get their gear and leave. This isn't nearly as bad, as it does not hurt the populus as much, but still is far from ideal. (making the grind very painful will definitely discourage this)

    So, you need valor gear, if for nothing else than to keep PVE separate from PVP.

    The undercurrent of your original idea has some merit. Basically a P4 geared payer has a distinct advantage over a fresh 50, but the difference is not so overwhelming that it makes engagement futile.

    I think Trion should revamp the PVP system to have no more than 4 active ranks. When a new rank comes out, the oldest rank is 'retired', and the gear associated with it is no longer available. For example, if this were to happen today, a new level 50 would be grinding for P5 gear out from the start. This will keep the total performance differential between the highest rank and lowest rank somewhat reasonable. Additionally, it keeps the barrier to entry to competitive PVP rather low.

    In compensation for this, Trion needs to add some kind of skill-based cost to the highest tier of PVP gear. I'm not sure what, but basically there needs to be some kind of skill-based incentive to keep the best PVP players coming back for more. In other words, people will not be able to purchase their P8 gear with favor alone. Some/all of the gear will require favor + SOMETHING (TBD), and SOMETHING is indicative of a player's skill/capabilities.

    Additionally, everyone's PVP title should be "demoted" with the onset of a new PVP rank. This would allow titles to mean something. Say, max rank is "GENERAL". Come next season, the "GENERALS" are demoted and given the "Lieutenant" title and so on. The title of "general" would have to be earned to be kept. (and they should also get some kind of cool thing when they get the title that cannot be taken away, like some costume pieces or a custom banner they can drop).

    I think implementing a system such as this would solve a lot of PVP woes, as well as keep people interested.

    The PVE implications of this would be similar to what WOW had a problem with. That is: people would grind the first rank of PVP to get some nice gear and use that for PVE. This will become a problem with gear inflation, as it always is. My recommendation to combat this is to have valor negatively impact focus such that the PVP gear cannot be used for PVE progression, but could still be used for questing, normal dungeons, world events, etc.
    Last edited by overbyte; 08-10-2011 at 09:24 AM.

  13. #13
    Banned overbyte's Avatar
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    This topic has been brought up before, and discussed quite a bit. In short, you will not find anyone who will state that being a fresh level 50 in warfronts is a truly engaging experience. Everyone knows it is not; what people tend to disagree on is whether something should be done about it, or to simply take your lumps and move on.

    ^^^fixed my grammar errors

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Kaylene's Avatar
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    I'm going to assume that if they had to merge battlegroups to get the queue speed people wanted, it won't sit well if they split the population based on rank.

    Split Population by Rank >>>> Longer Queues
    Longer Queues >>>> People complain for faster Queues
    Trion makes PvP LFG for all servers rather than just battlegroup >>> Premades roll PUG groups
    People then whine for separating PUGs and Premades >>> Longer queues...


    It's a no win situation for Trion. I don't think they have the popoulation currently for that degree of separation. Maybe one day.
    Cleric For Life

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    I really didn't think that getting rid of Valor would be the best solution. It's just something a friend and I talked about. I agree that the top raiders would then also dominate the PVP, and that's not something I'd enjoy myself.

    The tiers I think are the much better idea. The queues could be an issue, but knowing that people were going to get more evenly matched fights might bring more people out. Maybe not. I don't know. The queues might wind up not being longer. It could be that you wind up fighting the same people over and over more often (which can get to the point of not being that fun), unless, like was mentioned, the queues begin spanning all servers or the battle groups are made larger.

    I'm sure it's not a perfect idea by any means, but as much as I've heard about how unenjoyable the PVP is when going against R6's (and now R7's and 8's) as a fresh 50 or low rank (and I've experienced it myself and thought the same way) it would seem like a logical possibility. Even if it's just split into two tiers (1-4 and 5-8) to keep the queues down.
    Last edited by Granitejaw; 08-10-2011 at 09:41 AM.

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