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Thread: Escalation: Whitefall Steppes

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    Default Escalation: Whitefall Steppes

    Hey all, I just want to share my review of Escalation: Whitefall Steppes with you all. Check out the link and let me know what you think!

    I personally found it to be a very nice change. I had my doubts when it was announced (as I can't stand Whitefall Steppes -- it's the longest of the warfronts and always rewards the least Favor/Prestige). But I thoroughly enjoyed both playing the new one, as well as the rewards that came from it.

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    Soulwalker
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    Default Escalation: Whitefall Steppes

    I completely agreed Escalation: Whitefall Steppes is much better then generic capture the flag. I vote we, the consumers, request from Trion to make Escalation: Whitefall Steppes the normal warfront and do away with the regular Whitefall Steppes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnesium View Post
    I completely agreed Escalation: Whitefall Steppes is much better then generic capture the flag. I vote we, the consumers, request from Trion to make Escalation: Whitefall Steppes the normal warfront and do away with the regular Whitefall Steppes.
    Nice Suggestion, me like

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    I'll have to disagree (strongly).

    I like tactical play; there is no tactical play in the revised Whitefall Steppes. It's Guardian zerg to the middle Vs. Defiant zerg to the middle. It's like the current Black Garden WF; nothing more than a single-button-pushing/macro-dependent mindless game right now.

    Being rewarded for mindless game play more than twice as much as we are rewarded for thoughtful game play leaves my kind of cold, too.

    Personal opinion, of course... I like my PvP to require a little bit of thinking...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreegan View Post
    I'll have to disagree (strongly).

    I like tactical play; there is no tactical play in the revised Whitefall Steppes. It's Guardian zerg to the middle Vs. Defiant zerg to the middle. It's like the current Black Garden WF; nothing more than a single-button-pushing/macro-dependent mindless game right now.

    Being rewarded for mindless game play more than twice as much as we are rewarded for thoughtful game play leaves my kind of cold, too.

    Personal opinion, of course... I like my PvP to require a little bit of thinking...
    i was gonna write almost the same thing as you. i'll add.

    the new Whitefall is only fun because it is new and limited and grants more points than normal. otherwise it is the same scrum the other warfronts are designed around. i've never seen a developer put so much emphasis on zerging as much as seen in Rift.

    Black Garden: zerg the mid til someone succumbs or someone ninjas, continue to zerg or defend.
    Codex: zerg the Codex til someone succumbs or someone ninjas, continue to zerg or snipe nodes.
    Scion: zerg the bridge til someone takes it or someone realizes they are losing, then zerg boss or scatter aimlessly.
    WF(orig): zerg the other base initially, then meet in mid for an orgy. the rest of the battle might actually contain some strat.
    WF(w/e): zerg mid repeatedly, send rogues to snipe other base where there are maybe 1 defender

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyguns View Post
    i was gonna write almost the same thing as you. i'll add.

    the new Whitefall is only fun because it is new and limited and grants more points than normal. otherwise it is the same scrum the other warfronts are designed around. i've never seen a developer put so much emphasis on zerging as much as seen in Rift.

    Black Garden: zerg the mid til someone succumbs or someone ninjas, continue to zerg or defend.
    Codex: zerg the Codex til someone succumbs or someone ninjas, continue to zerg or snipe nodes.
    Scion: zerg the bridge til someone takes it or someone realizes they are losing, then zerg boss or scatter aimlessly.
    WF(orig): zerg the other base initially, then meet in mid for an orgy. the rest of the battle might actually contain some strat.
    WF(w/e): zerg mid repeatedly, send rogues to snipe other base where there are maybe 1 defender
    This is because many of us want a straight 5v5 or 10v10 group v group deathmatch and since they refuse to implement one, we have to try and make one ourselves.

    Edit - To explain, we want a premade v premade group v group fight sometimes, not always some set of silly arbitrary objectives.

    Sometimes the point is just to see which group/guild is better.
    Last edited by Snyrf; 08-10-2011 at 11:36 AM.

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    i had fun /10char

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    This is because many of us want a straight 5v5 or 10v10 group v group deathmatch and since they refuse to implement one, we have to try and make one ourselves.

    Edit - To explain, we want a premade v premade group v group fight sometimes, not always some set of silly arbitrary objectives.

    Sometimes the point is just to see which group/guild is better.
    Many will agree that the original 40man AV in WoW was one of the best PvP experiences. There were so many different aspects of that BG that made it so enduring. Then they changed it to be more of a Zergfest and it quickly became loathed.

    I would also argue that the 10man WSG, with it's map design, was one of the nicest test of small-group play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyguns View Post
    Many will agree that the original 40man AV in WoW was one of the best PvP experiences. There were so many different aspects of that BG that made it so enduring. Then they changed it to be more of a Zergfest and it quickly became loathed.

    I would also argue that the 10man WSG, with it's map design, was one of the nicest test of small-group play.
    There is the WoW crew, and there are those of us that cut out teeth on other mmos. UO, DAOC, etc.

    My personal feelings are that DAOC did it best with persistent pvp areas that allowed people to roam with all kinds of group sizes and have fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnesium View Post
    I completely agreed Escalation: Whitefall Steppes is much better then generic capture the flag. I vote we, the consumers, request from Trion to make Escalation: Whitefall Steppes the normal warfront and do away with the regular Whitefall Steppes.
    Appears more people are against it than for it. What I noticed (and may be a big part of why I like it so much) is that people just seemed to work together better and actually plan things. We, even as complete randoms, worked out plans, strategized and in most cases ended up winning. I just don't see that with any of the other warfronts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreegan View Post
    I'll have to disagree (strongly).

    I like tactical play; there is no tactical play in the revised Whitefall Steppes. It's Guardian zerg to the middle Vs. Defiant zerg to the middle. It's like the current Black Garden WF; nothing more than a single-button-pushing/macro-dependent mindless game right now.
    This. I don't remember ever loosing this if we won first zerg to middle, game was in practise over after 30s from first blow. Even as we almost always won I got bored with this WF in less than a day. Can barely image how stupid it felt to guardians who lost every match.

    Simple change to make this more intresting is to allow destroying crystals in enemy base or even teleporting them to home base automatically. This would force people to defend base instead staying in middle and just kill any fool who tries to steal crystals without controlling middle first.
    Last edited by Azzy; 08-11-2011 at 03:10 AM.
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    Plane Touched matthew84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreegan View Post
    I'll have to disagree (strongly).

    I like tactical play; there is no tactical play in the revised Whitefall Steppes. It's Guardian zerg to the middle Vs. Defiant zerg to the middle. It's like the current Black Garden WF; nothing more than a single-button-pushing/macro-dependent mindless game right now.

    Being rewarded for mindless game play more than twice as much as we are rewarded for thoughtful game play leaves my kind of cold, too.

    Personal opinion, of course... I like my PvP to require a little bit of thinking...
    Yes and no... That's what people make of it. But I have made wins out of losing games flag running while people were busy. The difference in escalation is that there is more action because there is a good reason to be in the middle. Because of players like me that will steal your stones there is good reason to have a defensive team. There is also good reason to have a group doing the same... There is tactical play... But there is a lot more action...

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew84 View Post
    Yes and no... That's what people make of it. But I have made wins out of losing games flag running while people were busy. The difference in escalation is that there is more action because there is a good reason to be in the middle. Because of players like me that will steal your stones there is good reason to have a defensive team. There is also good reason to have a group doing the same... There is tactical play... But there is a lot more action...
    Exactly. With normal CTF (Whitefall) you can just have a team run together to zerg the flag and kill the person that grabs yours on the way back to your base. Drop it off and your point is solid.

    With Escalation that changes a lot. There are many times we'd be winning 2:0 and lose because Defiant would sneak in, take both of your flags + the one in the middle and capture all three.

    I find the warfront to be a lot more involved.

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    It's the only warfront where you can go from winning 2-0, to losing 2-3, 1-3, etc. in a heartbeat. In any situation where the odds and advantage can change so quickly, you have to have a strategy, or you run a high risk of losing (that being said, if you win on the zerg from you'll still get decent favor overall). Every other warfront requires time for a turnaround because you have to slowly accumulate points at a faster rate than the opponent. I think Trion did a great job of designing a fast-paced warfront that incorporates alot of action as well as strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreegan View Post
    I'll have to disagree (strongly).

    I like tactical play; there is no tactical play in the revised Whitefall Steppes. It's Guardian zerg to the middle Vs. Defiant zerg to the middle.
    I'll have to disagree because I think there was less tactical play in the original whitefall steppes. It was always a fight in the middle, it just happened at a different time.

    Both teams race to the opposing teams flag. Take flag, meet in the middle. Sound familiar?

    Whomever wins the pvp in the middle and returns their flag wins 90% of the time with a game score of 1/0 while we do nothing but sit around and wait for the timer to run out and have the odd pvp battle for points. Far too easy to just turtle up which is what almost always happens.

    On the odd occasion where no one wins the pvp in the middle. Both teams hold up in their own base with a 0/0 game until one time is stupid enough to leave their FC undefended and a rogue ganks and returns the flag.

    I've won many battles against teams that were far stronger in pvp because of the tactical options in escalation. Stealing stones they've already returned while they're too busy getting KB's works well.

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