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Thread: Get premades outta pugs

  1. #1
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    Default Get premades outta pugs

    Separate premades and pugs.

    Kthxbai

  2. #2
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    incomming 5% population claiming premades are ok against the other 95%.

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    I think Trion has done about all they can to try and create a certain amount of separation between the two.

    At the end of the day, people running premades aren't doing anything wrong, and to fully segregate them from PUGs would create needlessly long queue times. I odn't think Trion needs to be catering to PUGs. It's a group-centric activity and arranging it so that the people who try to leverage that system to full effect get the short end of the stick would be a horrible, horrible mistake.

    Sometimes you lose in PvP. Badly. That's part of the process. If you can't handle that, warfronts aren't for you. Period.

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    Step your game up, get some people that are winning focused, ???, profit
    Even free cost too much now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    I think Trion has done about all they can to try and create a certain amount of separation between the two.
    More like Trion has done about all they care to do about it. They're equally indifferent to the afking/leeching that the premade/pug imbalances encourage. I reported the same player 5x who blatantly leeched during a number of PoS matches earlier today, and that player continued to queue without penalty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Sansa- View Post
    More like Trion has done about all they care to do about it. They're equally indifferent to the afking/leeching that the premade/pug imbalances encourage. I reported the same player 5x who blatantly leeched during a number of PoS matches earlier today, and that player continued to queue without penalty.
    I'm just going to be honest with you...I've been around MMOs for so long with players whining and crying that the devs "don't care" that I could really care less about your hypothesis. Rift is the devs' livelihood. You don't get a AAA MMO to market by not caring and you don't do your resume any benefit by deciding after the game launches that doing it "right" doesn't matter anymore.

    Your cynicism is both tragic and inappropriate. If all Trion does is cater to carebears who will whine until they get their own personal I-WIN button, they'll be far worse off than they are now. Nobody really cares about AFK "leechers" anymore because Trion has largely dealt with the problem. But one ninny fixates on one guy and makes it their personal mission to just report report report amg he's still there wtf report moar report report the devs don't care...

    So what? Really. Get over it. It's an MMO. **** happens. Deal with it. Stop crying. Stop whining. Or just stop playing. Problem solved.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    I'm just going to be honest with you...I've been around MMOs for so long with players whining and crying that the devs "don't care" that I could really care less about your hypothesis. Rift is the devs' livelihood. You don't get a AAA MMO to market by not caring and you don't do your resume any benefit by deciding after the game launches that doing it "right" doesn't matter anymore.

    Your cynicism is both tragic and inappropriate. If all Trion does is cater to carebears who will whine until they get their own personal I-WIN button, they'll be far worse off than they are now. Nobody really cares about AFK "leechers" anymore because Trion has largely dealt with the problem. But one ninny fixates on one guy and makes it their personal mission to just report report report amg he's still there wtf report moar report report the devs don't care...

    So what? Really. Get over it. It's an MMO. **** happens. Deal with it. Stop crying. Stop whining. Or just stop playing. Problem solved.
    And I'm going to be honest with you in return. I think referring to anyone as a "carebear", then tossing in a few other infantile insults because they disagree with your viewpoint is immature. I almost laughed out loud when I read your response. Seriously....you sound like a pompous teenager. Leeching is a problem for players who are already at a disadvantage because of the premade/pug issue. Trion has not dealt with the issue, because it continues to occur. How you can construe someone as whining by making the previous observation is beyond me. Well, unless you are in fact a pompous teenager.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Sansa- View Post
    And I'm going to be honest with you in return. I think referring to anyone as a "carebear", then tossing in a few other infantile insults because they disagree with your viewpoint is immature. I almost laughed out loud when I read your response. Seriously....you sound like a pompous teenager. Leeching is a problem for players who are already at a disadvantage because of the premade/pug issue. Trion has not dealt with the issue, because it continues to occur. How you can construe someone as whining by making the previous observation is beyond me. Well, unless you are in fact a pompous teenager.
    They did deal with it. They added the "Report AFK" feature. If enough people use it (see also: if enough people care) the individual doing the leeching will be forced to get involved or get booted.

    But the outcome you achieved didn't match your hopes/expectations, so you have to make negative assumptions about the devs. That they're "indifferent" because they didn't snap to attention at your first report.

    That, my friend, is childish. My friends with young children do their best to break them of that expectation at the earliest possible age because it doesn't serve their kids to grow up thinking that everyone exists to serve them at the snap of their fingers. Clearly someone missed that part of your early education.

    I'll say it again: people running premades aren't doing anything wrong. And if they were to be fully segregated from PUGs, their queue times would increase not only significantly, but unreasonably. Maybe you missed that part of the recent change where PUGs and premades were separated and it wasn't working so it was tweaked to be a little more forgiving.

    At some point you just have to suck it up and face reality: premades are going to be (and remain) a part of warfronts. And if you want to win so badly, it's time to a) play better and b) find like-minded people to queue with. That's the solution...not constantly crying to Trion to change things that don't need changing. Rift is the first MMO I've seen where people cry so much about premades. How embarrassing for you.
    Last edited by Licentia; 08-09-2011 at 09:15 PM.

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    Basically, Licentia, you're saying that so the minority of players in premades can enjoy shorter queue times, they should be allowed to inflict a negative experience on the majority of players who aren't in a premade? Sorry, but catering to 5% of the PvP population to the detriment of the other 95% is a very poor business model, and if continued, those developers will be updating their resumes with whatever positive spin they can put on the debacle of a failed business enterprise.

    Premades vs PUGs is not a competition, nor is it fun for the PUG. When players complain about that, you can't dismiss that as carebear attitude or QQ when it's simple truth. And if you need to disappoint the minority with longer queues in order to make the game better for the majority, that's just good business. And ultimately, those players in premades will have even longer queues if there's no one left to play against because players got tired of paying to be miserable, than they would have otehrwise had if Trion had segregated premades and PUGs to keep the majority of players content enough to stick around.

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    i am sick and tired of people socializing and working together in MMOs. its completely crap that people that are willing to organize a team and work together get to better enjoy and succeed at the aspect of the game which they are playing together for.

    ------------------

    how about this line of thought:

    stop balancing raids around having certain classes (like healers and tanks) in the group and make it so any 20 players can easily succeed in the raid. then, stop people from being able to form their own groups for it.

    doesn't make any sense right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbourne View Post
    All I see is your team gettin rolled but managing to win anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mournblood View Post
    Premades vs PUGs is not a competition, nor is it fun for the PUG.
    its even less fun for the premade.

    right now, everytime I join a warfront without my guild I just want to quit playing the game altogether.

    just about everyone playing this game is unable and unwilling to learn basic concepts and mechanics. its a huge struggle to get people to work together and the pvp is so heavily team based. its bad enough that a pug group doesn't usually get a good mix of classes, but then the players are unwilling to have multiple roles based on the group's needs (or even understand what the group needs) so we end up with stubborn players wanting to do what they want, in a team-based game, then come on the forum and cry about how much of an advantage the premades have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbourne View Post
    All I see is your team gettin rolled but managing to win anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by generatedname View Post
    i am sick and tired of people socializing and working together in MMOs. its completely crap that people that are willing to organize a team and work together get to better enjoy and succeed at the aspect of the game which they are playing together for.

    ------------------

    how about this line of thought:

    stop balancing raids around having certain classes (like healers and tanks) in the group and make it so any 20 players can easily succeed in the raid. then, stop people from being able to form their own groups for it.

    doesn't make any sense right?
    If you put as much logic into your post as you do sarcasm, you might actually have made a valid point.

    There's nothing wrong with players wanting to team up with their friends to "up" their game for some organized, competitive PvP - as long as they are facing similar teams. If you measure success in PvP by how quickly or easily your premade can faceroll a PUG, then you never really had any intention of succeeding at that aspect of the game in the first place. Your only intention in that case is fast, easy Favor with little effort, and when that's done at the expense of a larger majority of players who aren't in a premade, then yes, it is "completely crap".

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mournblood View Post
    Basically, Licentia, you're saying that so the minority of players in premades can enjoy shorter queue times, they should be allowed to inflict a negative experience on the majority of players who aren't in a premade? Sorry, but catering to 5% of the PvP population to the detriment of the other 95% is a very poor business model, and if continued, those developers will be updating their resumes with whatever positive spin they can put on the debacle of a failed business enterprise.
    I'm saying that it's an MMO, and that discouraging grouping and coordination in an MMO would be ridiculous. And if you implement systems that indirectly punish people for grouping and coordinating, you're discouraging it. And that's what happens when you segregate premades from PUGs.

    To hear some people talk, their faction never has premades. It's always the OTHER faction that has ALL the premades. Sorry, I don't buy it. Nobody cries that you need a group to do expert dungeons. Nobody cries that you need a group to do raids. But for some reason, you give people the option to queue solo for warfronts and they want to be treated like solo players. PvP isn't scripted. That's part of the appeal for a lot of people. You adapt or you fail. And because it's not scripted, you can't just show up with a group of random people who have all been to that warfront 20+ times before and they all know all the pulls and all the bosses and just go. If you want to be competitive, you have to work as a team. And if you want to increase your odds of being able to work as a team, one of the best ways to do so is to bring your own partial team.

    Premades vs PUGs is not a competition, nor is it fun for the PUG. When players complain about that, you can't dismiss that as carebear attitude or QQ when it's simple truth. And if you need to disappoint the minority with longer queues in order to make the game better for the majority, that's just good business. And ultimately, those players in premades will have even longer queues if there's no one left to play against because players got tired of paying to be miserable, than they would have otehrwise had if Trion had segregated premades and PUGs to keep the majority of players content enough to stick around.
    I can dismiss it as QQ and generic carebearism, because people are whining about losing but they aren't willing to step up to the plate and do what it takes to win. I don't roll with premades. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been in a group queuing for warfronts. I don't cry when my team gets steamrolled. I get more than a little irritated when the crybabies on my team throw in the towel and just stand on the ledge at the GY waiting to lose. If I do a particular warfront 2-3 teams and I see the same premade on the other team and the same crybabies on mine, I don't queue for that specific warfront for a while. I've NEVER encountered a situation where I couldn't find a warfront that wasn't being farmed by premades. Ever.

    You say premades represent the minority of players, yet in the same post you seem to want me to believe that they represent such a substantial part of the warfront-going populace that they disrupt any/every match you find yourself in. So which is it? They're the insignificant minority unworthy of consideration, or they're so common you can never find a warfront without one?

    You want to win? Play to win. And if that means you stop treating warfronts like a casual solo adventure, then that's what you do. Winners win. Whiners whine. Get the 'h' out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mournblood View Post
    Sorry, but catering to 5% of the PvP population to the detriment of the other 95% is a very poor business model
    So you want us to believe that only 5% of pvpers are ones that run premades and yet somehow those 5% ruin the fun of the other 95%. Care to tell me how 5% of the people manage to get into 100% of the wf's? Hax!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mournblood View Post
    If you put as much logic into your post as you do sarcasm, you might actually have made a valid point.

    There's nothing wrong with players wanting to team up with their friends to "up" their game for some organized, competitive PvP - as long as they are facing similar teams. If you measure success in PvP by how quickly or easily your premade can faceroll a PUG, then you never really had any intention of succeeding at that aspect of the game in the first place. Your only intention in that case is fast, easy Favor with little effort, and when that's done at the expense of a larger majority of players who aren't in a premade, then yes, it is "completely crap".
    thanks for the compliment
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbourne View Post
    All I see is your team gettin rolled but managing to win anyway.

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