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Thread: PVP rifts debalances the game further

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default PVP rifts debalances the game further

    Hi,

    On most servers you got more defiants then guardians. This is horrible on pvp servers, but you got 1 pro as a guardian you have short queues for WF's.
    But the game is so designed that if you want to get the good stuff you need to do the open world pvp dailies and pvp raidse for vendors.
    On my server Sagesphire - EN PVP, the defiants have a pvp rift open from 7:00 in the morning till 3:00 in the night.
    I am in the biggest guardian guild called SUN, we tried once to open a pvp rift and got swarmed by defiants.
    So that will never happen again.
    In WF they get stronger en open world too, and we progress much slower.
    First I loved this weekend double XP, now I see my self looking around for other games because being the underdog sometimes but becoming the underdog more often makes the game less fun.

    Regards,
    GirlyToon

  2. #2
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    the only thing pvp rifts did was introduce a new tier of tedium.

    9/10 rifts are uncontested and just dull carry objects for pvp rewards. WTF does trion think pvp is - picking flowers, carrying glowies, killing pve mobs. Jeez......

  3. #3
    Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grooovie View Post
    Hi,

    On most servers you got more defiants then guardians. This is horrible on pvp servers, but you got 1 pro as a guardian you have short queues for WF's.
    But the game is so designed that if you want to get the good stuff you need to do the open world pvp dailies and pvp raidse for vendors.
    On my server Sagesphire - EN PVP, the defiants have a pvp rift open from 7:00 in the morning till 3:00 in the night.
    I am in the biggest guardian guild called SUN, we tried once to open a pvp rift and got swarmed by defiants.
    So that will never happen again.
    In WF they get stronger en open world too, and we progress much slower.
    First I loved this weekend double XP, now I see my self looking around for other games because being the underdog sometimes but becoming the underdog more often makes the game less fun.

    Regards,
    GirlyToon
    Reroll on Briarcliff. Plenty of guardians on that server for you to join the favor train with.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched Laplace's Avatar
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    I am on the same server, as defiant, but looking to transfer because of the guardian situation. Roaming IPP in the daily zone for 2hrs finding 4 guardians...

    I saw guardians open a pvp rift twice and both times it was one guy who just tried it out then left. All guardians left we used to have some real skilled guardians on our server. Now there are two skilled warriors, Seen and Cristian, and maybe, maybe one skilled rogue (if Op still is on the server) and from what I'm guessing around 10 more lvl 50s who are enjoying x-shard LFD in sanctum and don't pvp even the slightest. I would love to be guardian on this server though, and just gank around pvp rifts all day. At least I would complete the 25 kill quests. Now I keep them for a week before they are done.
    Leoncoeur <HALT HAMMERZEIT>, R7 Warrior → 1026 Valor → Whitefall[PvP] Defiant

  5. #5
    Ascendant
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    There seem to be plenty of Guardians on Briarcliff during Oceanic times, at least. As soon as dailies reset, you'll find the area flooded with Guardians, and only a few straggler Defiant running around. Almost all of the PvP rifts I'm seeing open during those times are Guardian rifts. Warfront queues for me, as Defiant, are only a couple of minutes, even in the middle of the week.
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    the only thing pvp rifts did was introduce a new tier of tedium.

    9/10 rifts are uncontested and just dull carry objects for pvp rewards. WTF does trion think pvp is - picking flowers, carrying glowies, killing pve mobs. Jeez......
    The point is to get players out into the world. Open world PvP isn't something the devs create. It's something the players create. Some of you might do well to stop blaming Trion for a general disinterest in open world PvP. The devs enable it in the ruleset and they provide reasons for players to get out into the world. What happens after that is up to the players. If the players aren't responding or the type of PvP it generates is not to your liking, that's not a failing on the devs' part.

  7. #7
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    The point is to get players out into the world. Open world PvP isn't something the devs create. It's something the players create. Some of you might do well to stop blaming Trion for a general disinterest in open world PvP. The devs enable it in the ruleset and they provide reasons for players to get out into the world. What happens after that is up to the players. If the players aren't responding or the type of PvP it generates is not to your liking, that's not a failing on the devs' part.
    It's a failure because they refuse to do what needs to be done to cultivate long-term open world pvp.

    Lasting, meaningful impact.

    Dynamic zones without pve non-sense thrown in or mobs every 10 feet.

    Holding of static areas, rewards that impact the entire faction (factionwide buffs, access to contested areas, etc)

    Creating effective aoe CC, group run speed buffs (removing mounts in this area), kill broadcasting, inplementing more than 2 factions to act as spoiler and population check/balance, etc.

    Re-vamp pvp system to make it less gear intensive, and more skill-based.

    Remove the billion required pve or pve-like reputation grinds.


    There is plenty they could have done if they were serious about pvp, however all they've shown is that they are serious about pve and raids.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    the only thing pvp rifts did was introduce a new tier of tedium.

    9/10 rifts are uncontested and just dull carry objects for pvp rewards. WTF does trion think pvp is - picking flowers, carrying glowies, killing pve mobs. Jeez......
    This is because almost every server has faction imbalances. Unlike the OP defiants get rolled on my server so we don't try any more. We open a rift, we get swarmed by 40 Guardians to our 5 and game over.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    "The point is to get players out into the world. Open world PvP isn't something the devs create. It's something the players create. Some of you might do well to stop blaming Trion for a general disinterest in open world PvP. The devs enable it in the ruleset and they provide reasons for players to get out into the world. What happens after that is up to the players. If the players aren't responding or the type of PvP it generates is not to your liking, that's not a failing on the devs' part. "

    Totally disagree with this. If the world PvP is not fun, unbalanced, tedious etc. then it is the developers fault. Right now world PvP is everyone goes to 1 spot for zerg vs zerg, where unbalanced servers (many are unbalanced population wise) makes the world PvP not a lot of fun. The daily pvp quests fall into the same rut and is usually a 5-1 A faction vs B faction, once again not fun. World PvP in this game as it stands is simply not well designed or fun IMO

    What I do not blame developers for. Premades, gear inbalances, class inbalances. Generally these are player created issues assuming that there is a basic balance of faction population.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    The point is to get players out into the world. Open world PvP isn't something the devs create. It's something the players create. Some of you might do well to stop blaming Trion for a general disinterest in open world PvP. The devs enable it in the ruleset and they provide reasons for players to get out into the world. What happens after that is up to the players. If the players aren't responding or the type of PvP it generates is not to your liking, that's not a failing on the devs' part.
    First thing then is to stop giving pvp currency for pve - picking stuff up, killing mobs, running candles to circles.

    Second is to introduce meaningful pvp zones a la daoc new frontiers.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    First thing then is to stop giving pvp currency for pve - picking stuff up, killing mobs, running candles to circles.

    Second is to introduce meaningful pvp zones a la daoc new frontiers.
    Sorry, but that whole argument is a load of garbage.

    "Stop giving us PvE objectives to encourage open world PvP but gives us zones...environments...with different PvE objectives to encourage open world PvP." What's the difference between fighting people over flowers and mobs vs. fighting them over keeps and buildings? Oh...there is no difference. It's all the same thing. You're fighting other players. That's PvP. Keeps? Not players. Lasting objectives? Not players.

    PvP is player vs. player. If you're fighting another player, you're participating in PvP. Why you're fighting that player doesn't matter.

    Blizzard has been trying to inject open world PvP into WoW for years. Whether it was facilitated by objectives in zones offering different rewards and buffs to access to raid encounters and resources, it never caught on. It was never all that popular. And that doesn't mean they did it wrong, it means that despite the relentless QQ from the VOCAL MINORITY, it's just not something that a lot of people are really all that interested in.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    Sorry, but that whole argument is a load of garbage.

    "Stop giving us PvE objectives to encourage open world PvP but gives us zones...environments...with different PvE objectives to encourage open world PvP." What's the difference between fighting people over flowers and mobs vs. fighting them over keeps and buildings? Oh...there is no difference. It's all the same thing. You're fighting other players. That's PvP. Keeps? Not players. Lasting objectives? Not players.

    PvP is player vs. player. If you're fighting another player, you're participating in PvP. Why you're fighting that player doesn't matter.

    Blizzard has been trying to inject open world PvP into WoW for years. Whether it was facilitated by objectives in zones offering different rewards and buffs to access to raid encounters and resources, it never caught on. It was never all that popular. And that doesn't mean they did it wrong, it means that despite the relentless QQ from the VOCAL MINORITY, it's just not something that a lot of people are really all that interested in.


    WoW, that is a whole lot of logic and understanding of North American pvp community.

    You got some nerve to bring that here..........lol

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    It's a failure because they refuse to do what needs to be done to cultivate long-term open world pvp.

    Lasting, meaningful impact.

    Dynamic zones without pve non-sense thrown in or mobs every 10 feet.

    Holding of static areas, rewards that impact the entire faction (factionwide buffs, access to contested areas, etc)

    Creating effective aoe CC, group run speed buffs (removing mounts in this area), kill broadcasting, inplementing more than 2 factions to act as spoiler and population check/balance, etc.

    Re-vamp pvp system to make it less gear intensive, and more skill-based.

    Remove the billion required pve or pve-like reputation grinds.

    There is plenty they could have done if they were serious about pvp...
    Quoting this for truth, great list.

    From the outside looking in (I'm currently unsubscribed but keeping an eye on what Trion does with PvP), it seems like they've done a pretty good job of "incentivizing" World PvP. Points, daily errands, shiny loot. That's where almost the entire game industry is right now, the Cult of Incentives... this too shall pass.

    Note that this list (and others like it) have very little to do with superficial incentives, and a lot to do with making WPvP a glorious thing that people inherently care about. "Skill based." "Lasting, meaningful impact." "Rewards that impact the entire faction."

    Honestly, a true RvR-like system is a tall order and I really don't see it happening in Rift at this point.

    However I hope Trion will look at some more of the more modest suggestions. Kill broadcasting is a good one, as it's a very simple system with the potential to generate a lot of emergent gameplay. I've written about this at length.
    We are asking for RvR.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Anuhart's Avatar
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    Quite amazing how many PvP rifts appear in the dead of night. While doing all night Mote farms I am near enough the only person in a zone from midnight onward. Then suddenly at 3 am the zone fills up with one faction doing PvP rifts uncontested until about 6 am. Night after night, lucky to see one during the day.

    PvP you say?

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Oh yeah... must answer this too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    Blizzard has been trying to inject open world PvP into WoW for years. Whether it was facilitated by objectives in zones offering different rewards and buffs to access to raid encounters and resources, it never caught on. It was never all that popular. And that doesn't mean they did it wrong, it means that despite the relentless QQ from the VOCAL MINORITY, it's just not something that a lot of people are really all that interested in.
    The early attempts (Silithus collecting, Eastern Plaguelands towers, Halaa, etc.) were all tucked out of the way and had effectively zero impact on the rest of the world... somewhat similar to the Ancient Wardstone system. No surprise that these weren't popular.

    Wintergrasp was quite a bit more interesting. It had its flaws, and the 5% exp buff was a joke, but there was still some impact (access to the Vault of Archavon) and fighting for control of the fortress was a lot of fun. As a result, it WAS popular. If the battle had been always on, with walls/turrets/towers that could be repaired rather than just being reset, my server would have had 100+ people there at all times.

    Tol Barad was a slight step backwards in my opinion, replacing the satisfaction of knocking down walls with boring and non-obvious capture point mechanics. But last I checked, it was still pretty popular.
    We are asking for RvR.

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