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Thread: What is the point of Rogue in PVP?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default What is the point of Rogue in PVP?

    I know this post will get flammed to hell, but I just feel like I need to right this down and get some feedback.

    What is the point of Rogue now in PVP? I am a rank 6 Rogue will full rank 6 gear and while yes I have no problems killing lower ranked players of all classes, as soon as you come to a rank 5 geared or above Mage, Cleric or Warrior It is a complete waste of time.

    An example I was killing a Mage on Codex, I opened up with Jagged Strike, I then used Dancing Steel because 99% of Mages now play Dominator so doing this stopped them CC'ing, I then get dotted up, as soon as Dancing Steel ended I hit Foul Play didn't stun(hardly ever stuns now),I use puncture, I now have 5 combo points I hit Impale nothing the attack misses (since when did mages block or parry) I slip away and wait 5 seconds while the bleed effect ends and my immunity and then hit Paralyzing Strike didn't stun, Mage fully heals himself, then uses Split Personaly and I get 2 shotted.

    Killing a Cleric, I open with Jagged Strike, Puncture, Impale Foul Play (Stuns but Cleric breaks out) Hots up which out heals my bleeds, Stops me stealthing (for 30 seconds) then proceeds to hit me for 700 with water Jet every second until I die.

    Killing a DPS Warrior, I start with Side Steps then attack with Jagged Strike, Puncture, try and apply Impale fails, all the time I am not dodging anything 2 seconds into the fight I am down to 50% I get impale on and slip away. I watch for 20 seconds while my 4k crit of Impale takes 2k health???? I use Blade Temp then Paraylzying Strike (fails to stun) Dancing Steel seems to do all of 200 damage over it's 6 seconds, Disassemble fails to disarm, Maim fails to slow and I die.

    Killing a Tank Warrior, I start Side Steps then attack with Jagged Strike, Puncture and apply Impale the slip away. I watch for 20 Seconds while Warrior blocks almost every bleed, My 5k of damage has taken 1k health. I use Paralyzing Strike no surprise fails to stun, warrior shield slams me for 1500, I try Disassemble fails to Disarm, I try Maim fails to slow, I use Foul Play (Warrior Stunned Finally) get behind the Warrior do like 80 damage Warrior stun over STILL BEHIND him, I attack, Warrior BLOCKS. get hit with another few shield attacks I die.

    That is using 33 Assassin, 33 Bladedance 0 Ranger which in my opinon is a very high dps spec.
    Since 1.4 I have tried various builds including 15 in Infiltrator, where it seems Anathema has absolutely no effect on healing, and cleanse and Break Free are good for is running away.

    I have tried many combinations of starting attack. Parayzling strike works but for 4 seconds and uses Global Cooldown, so you actually get 2 attacks when using Paralyzing Strike so as an opener seems pointless.

    I purchased a Healing Greater Planar Essence to see if it would proc from Leeching Poison, And studied the combat log, Leeching Poison procs about once every 30 hits and that is for 75hp, After 25 procs of Leeching Poison still no proc on the healing Essence, Yet I have seen Warriors get procs from it regularly.

    Rogue's main stat is Dexterity which gives us some Attack Power but mainly Physical Crit, I have 655 and 922 Physical Crit which is a whopping 42.61% Crit Chance I do not Crit for any thing like that. Yet Warriors who I know their main stat is Strength ( I know a lot stack Dex but they can't be any where near that of Rogue) still crit way more than Rogue's, (I am aware that certain abilities reduce crit chance etc and Warrior's have abilities to increase crit chance)

    To summarise.

    Mage's have too much healing while being able to do very good damage.
    Cleric's have too much damage while being able to do very good healing.
    Warrior's have too much immunity, attack too fast and crit too much.
    Rogue's have too much time spent in graveyards.

    Also the other thing I do not fully understand take for example:

    Vex's tooltip is 258 Damage over 12 seconds, yet it ticks for 265 every 2 seconds, So the Cleric's Spell Power has increased it to that much, and that is constant, I have seen crit ticks go as high as 426, so why for example does my Jagged Strike 523 not get the same increase based on my Attack Power, it only increases on a critical hit.

    I am not asking for a 1 hit I win button on Rogue, I would like to see it improved considerably so it at least has a chance in 1vs1 Situation. Mages should be Glass Cannons do a lot of damage but not be able to tank 5 people, Clerics should be able to heal groups well but not be able to pump lots of dps out, Warriors should be able to take a lot of damage and not crit every one to death

    If I attack a Cleric he can just out heal my dps, so why when I go Bard can I not out heal a Clerics dps, (or any one elses)

    Trion has given to Rogue in one hand and then taken away in the other, and got a friend to use their hands as well.

    Now before you all start to flame, I mentioned at the start this only applies to high ranked players, I can go up to any class below rank 5 and 9 times out of 10 obliterate them. And maybe there is the odd Rogue out there who can solo any one, but I am not a massive hardcore player, I dont use macro's and I still click to attack (old habits dies hard) I don't claim to be the best Rogue out there, but I honestly believe even the best Rogue out there will agree with most of my points.

    Thank you for listening, now you can flame.

  2. #2
    Ascendant
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    I die to "good" sins often. Btw bard is amazing, even in pvp. If you suck at killing, why not assist those who do not?
    Zerosix - Warrior
    <DIVINE FURY>

  3. #3
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    So a badly specced, unaware rogue can't kill people.

    I now have 5 combo points I hit Impale nothing the attack misses (since when did mages block or parry) I slip away and wait 5 seconds while the bleed effect ends and my immunity and then hit Paralyzing Strike didn't stun, Mage fully heals himself, then uses Split Personaly and I get 2 shotted.
    Didn't read past this. Impale missed and you still slipped away, and on top of that, you slipped away hoping a steady bleed would kill that class. Also you used another stun opener after seeing they were immune to foul play?

    You run a pvp spec with 0 points in infiltrator, no nightblade healing debuffs and want to be a healer killing machine? Spec MM for eradicate + 2 min burst or nightblade if you want to kill heals. DoT's don't kill healers.

    If you struggle with any warriors (who aren't getting healed) as 38+ into sin you are doing it wrong, 33 should work fine as well since all it takes is bleeds + slip away

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Rogues are the first thing I target on my R4 war - sin, MM, bard, you name it. They go down like grass before a John Deere tractor, rarely get heals and are simply the easiest things to take down, so they go first.

    On my rogue I specced to runner for Whitefall (RS/Bard), ninja flag cap spec (Sin) for Cod, MM for BG and runner again for Port. If you're thinking of doing any melee though you're in for a world o' hurt...I feel your pain.

  5. #5
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    To whine and complain till every other calling is nerfed to the point where you don't need to be good at the Rogue calling.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    I don't suck that is my point, far from it. I lose to builds not players, I will put it a way even 9 year old would grasp it.

    Rogue 5000hp
    Mage 5000hp

    Rogue hits 500,500,500,500,500,500 heals 75
    Mage hits 500,500,500,500,500,500 heals 2500
    Rogue hits 500,500,500,500,500,500 heals 75
    Mage hits 500,500,500,500,500,500
    Rogue dead

    If you have the ability to heal that much, then you should not have the abilty to do that much damage same goes for the Cleric, SO that leaves what only the option to do every thing as a groupo, I want solo play.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetroRayner View Post
    I don't suck that is my point, far from it. I lose to builds not players, I will put it a way even 9 year old would grasp it.

    Rogue 5000hp
    Mage 5000hp

    Rogue hits 500,500,500,500,500,500 heals 75
    Mage hits 500,500,500,500,500,500 heals 2500
    Rogue hits 500,500,500,500,500,500 heals 75
    Mage hits 500,500,500,500,500,500
    Rogue dead

    If you have the ability to heal that much, then you should not have the abilty to do that much damage same goes for the Cleric, SO that leaves what only the option to do every thing as a groupo, I want solo play.

    I think your fellow Rogues have deemed you as bad.

    Please stop asking for nerfs to make up for your bad play.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    I can't speak for lvl 50 rogues, but can I can speak for well played ones. This is what you do with a rouge when you know the success to winning.

    http://i.imgur.com/o0Vll.jpg

    It's even got my healing essence proccing in the picture just for you.

    edit: don't worry I only play a few WFs every other night so I won't get your class nerfed too quickly.
    Last edited by Trisian; 08-08-2011 at 08:01 AM.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara
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    Waterjet does too much damage? I've heard it all now

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Swordfishy, that is my whole point. I try to avoid attacking Healers in that build it is pointless, but the one class, other than another Rogue I should be able to solo is a Mage, and I don't call Chloro/Necro/Dominator a healer, it is a stupid build which 98% of most Mages seem to use. If I want to kill healers I do use 44 Marskman 21 Infiltrator build, but I find it useless against Warriors, Mages and Rogue's I have it specced for the run speed, but I never seem to out run Warriors and Paragon's ranged seems better than Marksman's most of the time.

  11. #11
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    Anyone or anything that forces Rogues to use an ability or spec other than "Kill All" is OP.


    Is it me or did Trion get all the fail Rogues from WoW.
    Last edited by Notnice; 08-08-2011 at 08:05 AM.

  12. #12
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    With enough points in sin to get impale, warriors should be about the easiest class you will ever face. Because other than the one isnta self heal they are pretty much forced to sit there and eat the bleeds. Speccing into bladedancer would probably make it even easier to kill them with sidesteps,etc..

    I can't recall any warrior ever lasting through jagged + Foul Play +Puncture + BS -> Impale, slip away, reopen with a stun and throw a final blow if you have to.
    DK of The Fast and the Fairyous: Tokyo Rift

  13. #13
    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetroRayner View Post
    that is my whole point. I try to avoid attacking Healers in that build it is pointless, but the one class, other than another Rogue I should be able to solo is a Mage
    Here's where you're failing hard. In RIFT every class as the ability to solo every other class to some degree if you happen to be lucky enough and picked a good set of talents to counter his. Because you're rolling around in some cookie cutter feeling entitled to solo clerics and mages, I'm going to have to write you off as a bad player. Props for trying to seek a solution to your problems, but you've exposed more than you seek to fix.
    Last edited by Trisian; 08-08-2011 at 08:13 AM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Rogue is like the king of evasive and quick maneuvering combat. High burst damage, can hang with the ST and AoE output from other classes.

    I was actually in glee the other day in the new whitefall because it was 2 - 2 and a new stone spawned in the middle. Thankfully the warrior stopped mid cast pickup to let me get it and since I was a rogue MM I had enough speed with 30s on the clock to get to the base with about less than 10 to go. My rogue abilities def. got me there before timelimit. Just stuff like that reminds me why being a rogue is cool. They can specialize some awesome stuff and have a handful of untouchable combat aspects.

  15. #15
    Ascendant -Swag-'s Avatar
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    Rogues cover/complete warfront objectives and support other players in group fighting.

    1v1, you really need multiple specs which match up well against the other classes.

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