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Thread: Premade favor gains needs some looking into

  1. #16
    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liho1eye View Post
    Ok so it seems like we finally got people rolling more premades and it no longer take 40+ minutes to get into a match. That's good.

    However I noticed a serious issue. Premade matches while lasting slightly longer reward much less favor simply due to much fewer deaths in the process.

    This is pretty discouraging. I can join Whitefall solo, play a 5 minute mindless fragfest and walk away more favor than I would from a close 10v10 game. That just doesn't seem right.
    This thread would make a good "scumbag steve" meme. http://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gif

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trisian View Post
    This thread would make a good "scumbag steve" meme. http://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gif
    award favor/prestige to people who are actually contributing in WFs rather than to those who are present. You wont see "solo" queuers will get a rude awakening as to their true contribution in the form of lower prestige/favor.

    I dont think rewards needs to be increased...just properly allocated to the proper players.

    In ANY other MMO that follows this formula, solo players do not gain rewards as fast as grouped players who by default can kill a larger amount of people in a shorter amount of time.

    The problem we have here is the current WF system rewards everyone regardless of actual participation. This in turn stunts the normal progression of faction based pvp. We got the "solo" queuers experiencing a false sense of accomplishment. I understand Trion thinks they are being "fair," but nothing is "fair" about rewarding those who have not earned it.

    Of course there are exceptions, but for the most part, and I may sound ignorant, solo "queuers" are for the most part "carried" through their WF grind. I know this is a bold statement, but this statement is personally reinforced on a daily basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milen View Post
    In the case I described, my teammates are not depending on me, they are either mindlessly feeding the premade with more favor or they are sitting nearby.
    And I couldn't care less about the queue time of the premade. The only factor that determines my decisions is: What is best for me?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    Premade vs. Premade:

    You have voice communications.
    You have complimentary builds.
    Everybody knows what the objectives are.

    Yes, you are fighting an organized opponent - but you are organized as well. You pretty much know what they are going to do, because it is pretty much what you are going to do.

    PUG vs. PUG:

    No voice comms. If you want to communicate something, you have to stop to type it out. Odds are that it will just be ignored anyway.
    No complimentary builds. You never quite know what the other members of your team are going to be - from something as simple as Calling through whether they are running a build they put together after falling down the steps.

    Yes, it is true that both you and your opponent are likely to be disorganized; and this means that you really have no idea what their team much less your team is going to do.

    Imagine that you are attempting to bake a cake. The "Premade" baker would have the recipe, the ingredients, the utensils, and the rest to get the job done. The "PUG" baker would have...er...the desire to bake a cake, no recipe, too many or too few ingredients, perhaps some of the right utensils and probably some of the wrong utensils, and not really what they need to get the job done.

    Which in turn requires more effort and skill to bake the cake?

    One might make the argument that in a Premade vs. Premade fight, that the team requires a greater amount of collective skill and effort to overcome the other side... but right there, with that statement - you're already showing that it requires less individual skill and effort... it does not mean that an individual may not be exceptionally skilled or that in lacking such they need to put forth more effort. It is just what it is...

    While it can be fun from time to time to get together with others and fight other organized teams, it simply does not offer the challenge - does not push me to my limits - like I find myself tested while in a PUG. In a PUG vs. PUG match, I have no friends watching my back... I have to hope the guy standing next to me has a clue (much like he hopes that I have a clue) so we can get the job done.
    Im sorry but your scenario requires more luck and chance rather than actual effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milen View Post
    In the case I described, my teammates are not depending on me, they are either mindlessly feeding the premade with more favor or they are sitting nearby.
    And I couldn't care less about the queue time of the premade. The only factor that determines my decisions is: What is best for me?

  4. #19
    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    So many people who want to tell everyone how premades work, even though they have never been in one themselves. What is their evidence that all premades have voicecom, max gear, class composition, predefined strategies, and purposely stomp on the pickup players all day for favor (oddly enough, since they already have max gear)? How did they get this evidence without ever being in the premade queue themselves?

    Here is their evidence:
    They got owned a few times. Obviously that wouldn't happen unless the enemy team had all those things. There is no way the anti-premade guy could ever get owned without all those "unfair" advantages. He's simply way too skilled.

    Glad I could translate those complaints for y'all.

  5. #20
    Rift Master RubberDuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granitejaw View Post
    The reward for premade vs. premade is a better fight which should mean more enjoyment than just steam rolling pugs over and over. Premades shouldn't get special rewards just for being premades that already have better gear.
    i have to agree with you, premades against rank 1 pugs is not fair at all, the pugs usualy just get slaughterd and heavily farmed.

    but no all the trolls on here tell you to quit crying and l2p or some crap because they dont want it to be fixed.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberDuckie View Post
    i have to agree with you, premades against rank 1 pugs is not fair at all, the pugs usualy just get slaughterd and heavily farmed.

    but no all the trolls on here tell you to quit crying and l2p or some crap because they dont want it to be fixed.
    "When the mismatches are significant and constant, it's less fun for everyone -- Most skilled, well-coordinated premades don't find long term fun if the corresponding challenge isn't there on the other side.
    Likewise, being on the receiving end of a coordinated premade isn't a lot of fun for the typical solo or duo player. In a perfect world, those people would be able to grow up and eventually become that awesome themselves, perpetuating a healthy cycle of competition. In places where the matches are constantly uneven, this dynamic doesn't really occur"

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...to-future.html

    This is trion admitting a large majority of their remaining PvP player base hasnt L2P. Personally, I'd feel like crap if someone had to adjust a system for my own deficiencies.

    I got a question...how long are you guys gonna stay R1? Seriously, half the PvP population should be R6 by now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milen View Post
    In the case I described, my teammates are not depending on me, they are either mindlessly feeding the premade with more favor or they are sitting nearby.
    And I couldn't care less about the queue time of the premade. The only factor that determines my decisions is: What is best for me?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moecoastie View Post
    Im sorry but your scenario requires more luck and chance rather than actual effort.
    You realize that bad luck and crappy chance means you need more effort to win...right? Kind of the point.
    Kincayd (1)* - Omeki (1) - Comma (2) - Bugeisha (2) - Malphesiel (3)
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  8. #23
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    WHo cares about the rewards?

    I thought PvP was for the fun of it.

    PvP in premades or alone, get your favor, enjoy life.

    It's really quite simple.
    Officer of Legacy, Keenblade.

    Prestige Rank 8 -- 4/10 HK -- Rogue

  9. #24
    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiar View Post
    WHo cares about the rewards?

    I thought PvP was for the fun of it.

    PvP in premades or alone, get your favor, enjoy life.

    It's really quite simple.
    It is a post-WoW era, who PvPs to PvP? It's just an alternate carrot chasing path...

    Kincayd (1)* - Omeki (1) - Comma (2) - Bugeisha (2) - Malphesiel (3)
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  10. #25
    Shield of Telara Elerina's Avatar
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    I agree on the r1 argument not being valid.

    However, premades are indeed an annoying thing, but I just don't know how to solve this issue.

    I only wished at least those premades wouldn't brag all day and insult the pug for being "noobs" and "bad". I mean seriously, how stupid are those guys?

    Don't get me wrong, it figures that premades are rolling over pugs atm, just because it's the fastest way to get prestige and favor. But at least I would expect those people not to be completely ******s and bragging about it.

    How cheap is that, really? I myself refused to join a pvp guild because all they do is pug-stomping. Wowzaa, how much fun that would have been ...

    Well, my hope for humankind has gone long ago anyways.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiar View Post
    WHo cares about the rewards?

    I thought PvP was for the fun of it.

    PvP in premades or alone, get your favor, enjoy life.

    It's really quite simple.
    PvP is for the fun of it when all things are equal. In this game they aren't and never will be until everyone is max rank with max gear. Until then I'd like to have at least not less rewards for trying harder than most scrubs do.
    -- Trollhammer@Molinar

  12. #27
    Rift Master -Sansa-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moecoastie View Post
    In places where the matches are constantly uneven, this dynamic doesn't really occur"

    This is trion admitting a large majority of their remaining PvP player base hasnt L2P. Personally, I'd feel like crap if someone had to adjust a system for my own deficiencies.
    Look closer. They admit that in an inherently uneven match-up, healthy competition does not develop. Many of us who prefer to pug are not playing this game to be uber-competitive. That does not mean we are without "skill". And what adjustment are you claiming we're asking for? We want pugs vs. pugs, and premades vs. premades, which the game already supports. Many premades simply refuse to use the option available for grouping.

    ETA: Actually, you make no sense at all...I don't even want to bother "debating" the point with you any longer, as you refuse to see any side but your own.
    Last edited by -Sansa-; 08-07-2011 at 02:38 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    You realize that bad luck and crappy chance means you need more effort to win...right? Kind of the point.
    ummm...no, you just need more luck and chance. The more chaos and lack of organization is present...the more luck and chance play a part. Simple logic if you ask me.

    The more effort you mention is effort in carrying more of the team...if you think you alone can make diff in a WF consisting of 10+ people...then you are a better player than I. More often than not, one player will not make a difference in the outcome, unless chance and luck play a larger part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milen View Post
    In the case I described, my teammates are not depending on me, they are either mindlessly feeding the premade with more favor or they are sitting nearby.
    And I couldn't care less about the queue time of the premade. The only factor that determines my decisions is: What is best for me?

  14. #29
    Shield of Telara
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    It's kinda funny, when I've run into some grouped opponents this weekend they weren't rolling whitefall, and weren't even winning most of the matches. I think it has to do with the massive number of players queueing for the bonus warfront. If enough solo queuers are getting in line it makes it much more difficult to sync solo queue and get your group in.

    OP were you saying: "We weren't able to solo queue and get our whole group in and we keep getting matched with other premades in the group queue. I'm afraid every weekend will be this way so I won't be able to get r8 before all the solo players and faceroll them! Please give me extra bonus favor Trion! I don't like an even playing field!"

    Mad?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Sansa- View Post
    Look closer. They admit that in an inherently uneven match-up, healthy competition does not develop. Many of us who prefer to pug are not playing this game to be uber-competitive. That does not mean we are without "skill". And what adjustment are you claiming we're asking for? We want pugs vs. pugs, and premades vs. premades, which the game already supports. Many premades simply refuse to use the option available for grouping.

    ETA: Actually, you make no sense at all...I don't even want to bother "debating" the point with you any longer, as you refuse to see any side but your own.
    no where in that post do I see any statement regarding an inherit disadvantage. They state the normal progression of PvP should breed more competitive teams and play...unfortunately, the player base hasnt quite caught on.

    What I do see is Trion recognizing that the "solo" queue players are a large part of the population and that they are willing to cater to them as this game has room for both playstyles. This being a huge step for an MMO company as previous faction based PvP games have not catered to such players.

    at no point was I debating with you. You stated your opinions, I stated mine...no body is changing anyones view on the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milen View Post
    In the case I described, my teammates are not depending on me, they are either mindlessly feeding the premade with more favor or they are sitting nearby.
    And I couldn't care less about the queue time of the premade. The only factor that determines my decisions is: What is best for me?

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