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Thread: How about a one gear level for all Warfront Q?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by croon View Post
    You mind sharing the name of the title? I haven't heard of it.



    I don't know, I just don't want to hurt their sensibilities.
    ,
    I need to pick your game library? I'm sure you can work that out on your own, just pick ones that you enjoy. This will be easier than picking up a game you don't like and then going to the forums complaining that it isn't like team fortress.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurg View Post
    Yes. And this is why there are FPS games and MMOs. What you wnt to play is a FPS. RIft is about progression like very other game in the genre. This cr$p is getting tiring. Please stop with this nonsense already. Either gear up or shut up and go play a FPS.
    Why in god's name would anyone ever want to PvP in a game where gear > skill entirely, even the ones with the gear

    It is absolutely beyond me ..

    Even if i was rank 6 already (which im not terribly far from) it be so utterly boring it would bring me to tears, curbstomping absolutely everything that happens to walk in front of me 100% of the time simply because they're not the same exact rank as me or don't have the same gear ..

    You really believe that this is what MMO PvP is about?....... or is it possible that you're just that bad at PvP that you require significantly better gear than everyone else in order to win?

    Either way, it's plain sad.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusyHandz View Post
    ,
    I need to pick your game library? I'm sure you can work that out on your own, just pick ones that you enjoy. This will be easier than picking up a game you don't like and then going to the forums complaining that it isn't like team fortress.
    What is your problem?

    I want the Rift PVP I've levelled up 3 alts in, because it was actually fun and a good challenge I got better at. You tell me there is such a game elsewhere, and I don't know about it so I'm asking you. If you have run out of arguments and are just trolling, I have no interest in exchanging words with you anymore. If you actually have something to say, then say it.

    I don't want Team Fortress, which is why I'm currently not playing Team Fortress, it's as simple as that. I shall move along to GW2 when it is released, but at the moment I don't have that option.

    Is this all about you not wanting to lose your advantage and being afraid of a fair fight? If you're actually content in joining a WF just to press the win button and watching the R1's fall, I mourn for you.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by croon View Post
    What is your problem?

    I want the Rift PVP I've levelled up 3 alts in, because it was actually fun and a good challenge I got better at. You tell me there is such a game elsewhere, and I don't know about it so I'm asking you. If you have run out of arguments and are just trolling, I have no interest in exchanging words with you anymore. If you actually have something to say, then say it.

    I don't want Team Fortress, which is why I'm currently not playing Team Fortress, it's as simple as that. I shall move along to GW2 when it is released, but at the moment I don't have that option.

    Is this all about you not wanting to lose your advantage and being afraid of a fair fight? If you're actually content in joining a WF just to press the win button and watching the R1's fall, I mourn for you.
    sorry man, didn't mean to upset you, I have been up for 36 hrs and am reading the forums and getting pissed off with all the complaining. I just don't understand why people get angry over a game of all things.

    I did not enjoy pvp when i first hit 50 but quickly found that i love the fact that the more i play, the more powerful I get, it's like I am training and building strength. Of course there will be the odd few who will be totally unskilled but have r6 gear, but that's life and I would rather take that than a repetitive kind of console experience where my character has exactly the same viability no matter how often or in which way I play. I used to play my xbox all the time and loved it, but I have traded that in for character progression and leveling over time which you can only really find on the PC. Rift is exactly that kind of experience.

    My point is there are lots and lots of multiplayer games where there is no gear or character advantage for you to choose from, please don't ruin this one for me.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusyHandz View Post
    sorry man, didn't mean to upset you, I have been up for 36 hrs and am reading the forums and getting pissed off with all the complaining. I just don't understand why people get angry over a game of all things.

    I did not enjoy pvp when i first hit 50 but quickly found that i love the fact that the more i play, the more powerful I get, it's like I am training and building strength. Of course there will be the odd few who will be totally unskilled but have r6 gear, but that's life and I would rather take that than a repetitive kind of console experience where my character has exactly the same viability no matter how often or in which way I play. I used to play my xbox all the time and loved it, but I have traded that in for character progression and leveling over time which you can only really find on the PC. Rift is exactly that kind of experience.

    My point is there are lots and lots of multiplayer games where there is no gear or character advantage for you to choose from, please don't ruin this one for me.
    Thank you, that gives a lot more insight to your points. I understand (from reading other posts) that a lot of people feel like you about the progression role playing elements of it, but I myself, and the OP as well as a lot of other posters on the forum don't want that in the PVP portion. This is I can only say for myself, but I'm sure some others agree: I love PVE for coop with my friends, it's honestly what I like playing most in games when relaxing, but whenever I play PVP (regardless of genre, if it's micro machines, quake, versus tetris or MMO pvp) the roleplaying for me goes out the window because I want to challenge someone else, and my mouse and keyboard and character is just a tool for that. I really do think think it's more than a sustainable number of people who would play PVP just for the PVP without progression to have its own queue, but of course Trion would have to check those numbers themselves. Basically they could just see how many people who did play PVP levelling up, but then stopped after trying it at 50.

    As for the console thing, although I have a console nowadays, I've been almost exclusively playing on computers since the 80s, starting with a Sinclair, and repetitive I feel is not an adjective you can put to multiplayer versus other people, because people are not predictable, which is the whole point of having fun PVP for me. I myself hate the consolification of FPSs because they too incorporated progression where it all boiled down to 12-year olds skipping school to play CoD 2011 and nuking grown ups who have a couple of hours after work where they can play. But really the console vs PC is besides the point, I just wanted to clear that out.

    I hope you get my (dare I say our?) side of the point too.

  6. #36
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    The point everyone seems to be dancing around but not actually saying is that the gear disparity in WFs is what really makes it NOT FUN.

    If you had a level playing field because everyone was at the same gear level and rank, it would be much more competitive and fun, similar to a lot of FPS games out there in the sense that there's no gear advantage.

    Yet being this is an MMO, and players want to feel that sense of progression and accomplishment, better gear is typically how that is measured.

    So if we combine those two opinions shared by the majority of players, we'd conclude that players want some measure of progression in PvP, but don't want to deal with the frustration of getting steamrolled for 3+ months just to get to a level of gear that is competitive.

    As the OP suggested, the solution is to either add a separate WF where gear is normalized (which I think would be very popular, but the geared WFs would suffer because hardly anyone would queue for those anymore), OR, Trion could bracket the ranks (e.g., P1 - P4 in one bracket, and P5 - P8 in a second bracket). At least then the gear disparity wouldn't be so pronounced as it is now when a P2 faces a P5+ and gets one-shotted.

    IMO, the gear issue is the single, biggest reason that PvP in this game just sucks complete *** for anyone not P5+ geared right now. It's only going to get much worse when P7/8 gear comes out.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusyHandz View Post
    sorry man, didn't mean to upset you, I have been up for 36 hrs and am reading the forums and getting pissed off with all the complaining. I just don't understand why people get angry over a game of all things.

    I did not enjoy pvp when i first hit 50 but quickly found that i love the fact that the more i play, the more powerful I get, it's like I am training and building strength. Of course there will be the odd few who will be totally unskilled but have r6 gear, but that's life and I would rather take that than a repetitive kind of console experience where my character has exactly the same viability no matter how often or in which way I play. I used to play my xbox all the time and loved it, but I have traded that in for character progression and leveling over time which you can only really find on the PC. Rift is exactly that kind of experience.

    My point is there are lots and lots of multiplayer games where there is no gear or character advantage for you to choose from, please don't ruin this one for me.
    There is nothing wrong with wanting to be able to better your character in PvP via gear and ranks, but to the extent that this game does it's downright asinine. The GAP between ranks, and the gear as a result, is far, far, FAR too much.

    And I think it's an issue that needs to be addressed first and foremost before absolutely anything else PvP related. Whether it be class/role balancing, new systems like seperating by rank, NEW RANKS, more world PvP opportunities, etc, fixing scaling and even TTK should come FIRST.

    Let me put it this way .. you can't measure balance when its 100 of class A at prestige 1-4 making complaint threads about trying to kill class B or getting "wtfrolled" by class C at prestige 6. It just doesn't work...

    I'm not saying that all PvP gear should be nerfed to the point of equality throughout the ranks, but it should scale MUCH better than it does. Not such significant, drastic increases.. Perhaps some diminishing returns can be set in place somewhere along the lines. That way you can still have something to work towards and look forward to while not having it like a steroid freak beating an infant to death.
    Last edited by Soulchew; 07-30-2011 at 11:48 PM.

  8. #38
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    Valor is what ruins it.

    The stats on the purple pvp rank gear are good enough adding valor into the mix which is also ridiculous just compounds the problem.

    It's like Trion is saying "hey here's your get out of jail free card. You don't even have to try as hard against other players because not only do you have nice stat bonuses but all incoming damage is reduced significantly for you too!"


  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mournblood View Post
    The point everyone seems to be dancing around but not actually saying is that the gear disparity in WFs is what really makes it NOT FUN.

    If you had a level playing field because everyone was at the same gear level and rank, it would be much more competitive and fun, similar to a lot of FPS games out there in the sense that there's no gear advantage.

    Yet being this is an MMO, and players want to feel that sense of progression and accomplishment, better gear is typically how that is measured.

    So if we combine those two opinions shared by the majority of players, we'd conclude that players want some measure of progression in PvP, but don't want to deal with the frustration of getting steamrolled for 3+ months just to get to a level of gear that is competitive.

    As the OP suggested, the solution is to either add a separate WF where gear is normalized (which I think would be very popular, but the geared WFs would suffer because hardly anyone would queue for those anymore), OR, Trion could bracket the ranks (e.g., P1 - P4 in one bracket, and P5 - P8 in a second bracket). At least then the gear disparity wouldn't be so pronounced as it is now when a P2 faces a P5+ and gets one-shotted.

    IMO, the gear issue is the single, biggest reason that PvP in this game just sucks complete *** for anyone not P5+ geared right now. It's only going to get much worse when P7/8 gear comes out.
    No everyone isn't saying that.

    Premade v pugs isn't fun.
    Overpowered classes/specs aren't fun (parachamp/cleric/chlorodom)

    Gear disparity is a non issue. Pvp gear is ridicuously easy to get. Couple of hours in your storebought blues and you've got your first set.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    No everyone isn't saying that.

    Premade v pugs isn't fun.
    Overpowered classes/specs aren't fun (parachamp/cleric/chlorodom)

    Gear disparity is a non issue. Pvp gear is ridicuously easy to get. Couple of hours in your storebought blues and you've got your first set.
    By a couple of hours you mean ten. By your first set, you mean R1. What you leave out is the glaring chasm between R1 and R6+.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrazen View Post
    Leave the gear grind in for people that enjoy that aspect of gaming. Put in an 'everyone in the same gear level' Q. This game is fun when everyone is geared fairly closely.

    Problem solved. People that want to engage in gear grinding and PvP bragging rights can, people that just want to Q and have some fun on equal ground can as well, everyone wins.
    They already have this. It is called Counterstrike. You should check it out sometime.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulchew View Post
    There is nothing wrong with wanting to be able to better your character in PvP via gear and ranks, but to the extent that this game does it's downright asinine. The GAP between ranks, and the gear as a result, is far, far, FAR too much.

    And I think it's an issue that needs to be addressed first and foremost before absolutely anything else PvP related. Whether it be class/role balancing, new systems like seperating by rank, NEW RANKS, more world PvP opportunities, etc, fixing scaling and even TTK should come FIRST.

    Let me put it this way .. you can't measure balance when its 100 of class A at prestige 1-4 making complaint threads about trying to kill class B or getting "wtfrolled" by class C at prestige 6. It just doesn't work...

    I'm not saying that all PvP gear should be nerfed to the point of equality throughout the ranks, but it should scale MUCH better than it does. Not such significant, drastic increases.. Perhaps some diminishing returns can be set in place somewhere along the lines. That way you can still have something to work towards and look forward to while not having it like a steroid freak beating an infant to death.
    the main problem with nerfing valor or pvp gear is it will become irrelevant compared pve gear which usually has much higher stats, and it is the valour stat that kind of equalizes it.

    we all know the disparity between fresh 50 and r6, its not fun for them its not fun for the r6 (well some find it fun but their sanity is questionable).
    I am all for creating warfronts were stats are capped, actually i think a better idea would be to take a page out of fps books and have you unlock different gear, earn favor and unlock different pieces. One having high end, one ap/sp heavy, one crit heavy and one balanced set, as well as many appearance items. It would not only allow people to play in their own style but also have some sort of progression

    the problem with these fixes are that they leave a glaring whole for world pvp with pve gearing being far superior, and i dont know how to remedy that. Lets face it nothing much in the world pvp area is happening anyway apart from ganking and zergs
    Last edited by j3w3l; 07-31-2011 at 06:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelOfTheGuardians View Post
    Speaking of which, do some people really only play MMOs to grind? That must be boring.
    It's a sort of addiction loop thing. In the beginning you get rewards for next to no effort, then after a while there is a bit of drudgery an then more ...... and eventually you are fresh rank 50. You look at the 45K prestige to p2 and think - that's not so bad.

    You play for a while and eventually the lopsided gameplay (balancing, premades, people not doing what you want, whatever) makes you notice the grind, but you are so close - just a few more hours and I'll go to sleep.

    Fast forward to p4 and the prestige mountain to climb to p5. The doubts creep back into your mind but you have put so much time into it already. To back out now would be to admit your stupidity. The only thing to do is plow ahead and when it is too much to bear get on the forums and tell people the grind isn't that bad or that progression is blah blah.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrifter View Post
    They already have this. It is called Counterstrike. You should check it out sometime.
    I don't like the gameplay of FPSs. I won't quote myself but I've already explained that FPSs and fighting games aren't the only possible platforms for (balanced) PvP.

    I guess I should explain myself... To even be on par with the CS and other hardcore FPS pros would take years to get your aim perfect. Aiming might come naturally to some people but not me... So that would be absolute torture.
    Last edited by AngelOfTheGuardians; 07-31-2011 at 07:44 AM.


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  15. #45
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    I would prefer premade vs premade and pug vs pug oriented qued like before


    im p6 cleric and I get rofl stompped every other wf by <insert whatever is the fotm class here> with a few of their buddies backing them up.
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