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Thread: Arena and why we desperately need it

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Psykoz's Avatar
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    Default Arena and why we desperately need it

    PvP in this game is dying, and I think to most people, the reason why is obvious. We don't have any endgame PvP, there's no real competition, nothing to strive for.

    What do we have? A simple grind, which has only to do with the quantity of how much you play rather than the quality of your gameplay. I don't say warfronts shouldn't be a part of PvP, because they should, but they sure as hell shouldn't be counted as the most sophisticated PvP ground and rewarding the top notch gear. That is of course unless they were to be rated, but that's another idea for another thread, let's be realistic and take one step at a time, the first step now being implementing arena.

    For those unaware what arena is; it's basically what it sounds like, an arena (with pillars to avoid zerging preferably) where you fight to the death, with different brackets ranging from 2v2-5v5, you lose, you drop in rating, you win, you gain in rating, you face teams on similar rating as your own. It's real teamplay, working together for the very best result and constantly improving from your mistakes, or just goofing around with friends, whatever you prefer.

    Now I know there is a lot of negativity about this out there, people might think like "but won't the imbalance between classes become even more obvious?" and "how could it fit in with the current system?", well then, aren't these the exact things we are paying Trion to take care of?

    No matter how you look at it though, whatever the flavour of the month happens to be, with the amount of different builds we are able to make, we should always have at least one available to compete in the high end.

    Giving us arena would not only stop people from leaving, but it would also make the PvP playerbase skyrocket, like I said earlier, people want a chance to shine, something to strive for, even the worse players. At least I'm fairly certain solo farming none rated warfronts is not the general idea of endgame PvP.

    And it is also good for the social aspect, it's more intimate (on a none sexual basis lol), you meet a lot of new people when searching partners, finding the combo you're comfortable with, and the need for voice chat, you get to know the PvPers of your server community.

    I have no idea as to why it's not in the game already. I think we can all agree on that it is not Trion not wanting to copy WoW at least. Is it because the game is still in such an early stage? I don't know, but what I do know is that the game is dying, and something needs to be done fast, let's not make Rift a game where you just kill time waiting for something better to come out.

    Love it or hate it, but in the end we can all agree that we need it, my 2 cents.


    Seriously, suggest me your drugs. I'll give them a try just to know how is it to be awesome and cool like the best Defiant mage I have ever encountered in wfs!
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  2. #2
    Plane Walker Gazrael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psykoz View Post
    PvP in this game is dying
    Unsubstantiated opinion

    and I think to most people, the reason why is obvious.
    No it isn't

    We don't have any endgame PvP, there's no real competition, nothing to strive for.
    Patent falsehood


    What do we have? A simple grind, which has only to do with the quantity of how much you play rather than the quality of your gameplay.
    Quibbling with the same system you later propose as an alternative, see below

    Giving us arena would not only stop people from leaving, but it would also make the PvP playerbase skyrocket, like I said earlier, people want a chance to shine, something to strive for, even the worse players. At least I'm fairly certain solo farming none rated warfronts is not the general idea of endgame PvP.
    Hypocritical; suggesting the replacement of one grind (previously lambasted) for another

    And it is also good for the social aspect, it's more intimate (on a none sexual basis lol), you meet a lot of new people when searching partners, finding the combo you're comfortable with, and the need for voice chat, you get to know the PvPers of your server community.
    No


    ..... Is it because the game is still in such an early stage? I don't know, but what I do know is that the game is dying, and something needs to be done fast, let's not make Rift a game where you just kill time waiting for something better to come out.
    Unsubstantiated opinion

    Love it or hate it, but in the end we can all agree that we need it, my 2 cents.
    Deciding conclusion for the reader, unsubstantiated opinion

    There are games that are perfect for you if you enjoy that system of PvP. I suggest you go play them.
    Last edited by Gazrael; 07-12-2011 at 04:30 AM.
    M'Nope.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched Psykoz's Avatar
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    Without trying to sound unfriendly I shall say everything but this sounded biased and narrow minded:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazrael View Post
    Hypocritical; suggesting the replacement of one grind (previously lambasted) for another
    If it would be the same rating system as in WoW (using matchmaking value), it would take a few hours, a day at most, to reach your rating, going above it would only happen if you were to improve rather than just "farm".
    Last edited by Psykoz; 07-12-2011 at 04:37 AM.


    Seriously, suggest me your drugs. I'll give them a try just to know how is it to be awesome and cool like the best Defiant mage I have ever encountered in wfs!
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  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    I don't play PvP much but I'm baffled by the backlash against arenas. Everyone complains about premades in their PUG games, so why not put the premades into arenas? It gives the premades the competition they want, and it gets them out of the PUG's hair. Why doesn't that make everyone happy?
    refugee from Corthana and Byriel

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Milen's Avatar
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    Arenas and some form of ranking based on performance, not time investment and grind, would both be great. Actually, I have no idea why these things are missing. Did Trion seriously think 4 instanced and terribly repetitive warfronts and a bunch of items to grind equates to sufficient PvP?

    And, wait, I almost forgot - PvP dailies in which you have to pick up fungi and kill mobs.

    Brilliant.

    I can't imagine other serious reasons for opposition to arenas and performance-based ranking besides fear of low performance.
    Last edited by Milen; 07-12-2011 at 04:39 AM.
    retired

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Gazrael's Avatar
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    No. It has more to do with arena being garbage than anything.

    Then again I'm from the old honor guard wherein PvP for the fun of it was reward enough as it is. Maybe I'm just not hip to this new rush to make everything an e-sport so I can start waving my e-peen at everyone passing by and predicate my self-worth on a matchmaking number.
    Did it and excelled at it in every season of Warcraft. Been there done that. There's nothing fun or innovative about cheese comps and FOTMs and riding the MM system. The vast majority of people that did it did the 10-game lose streak to slowly scrounge up the gear, so the idea that everyone was participating for the fun of it is just as much garbage as the actual system is itself.
    Last edited by Gazrael; 07-12-2011 at 04:46 AM.
    M'Nope.

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    Banned Shadowprison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazrael View Post
    No. It has more to do with arena being garbage than anything.

    Then again I'm from the old honor guard wherein PvP for the fun of it was reward enough as it is. Maybe I'm just not hip to this new rush to make everything an e-sport so I can start waving my e-peen at everyone passing by and predicate my self-worth on a matchmaking number.
    Did it and excelled at it in every season of Warcraft. Been there done that. There's nothing fun or innovative about cheese comps and FOTMs and riding the MM system. The vast majority of people that did it did the 10-game lose streak to slowly scrounge up the gear, so the idea that everyone was participating for the fun of it is just as much garbage as the actual system is itself.
    That's just your opinion.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Gazrael's Avatar
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    The last part? No. There was a posted mine that circulated long before I quit that showed the average number of games played in 2v2 and 3v3, the most active brackets. It is a fact that late season Wrath saw an unprecedented number of 10-game-a-week teams before the switch to the point cap- after which I'm going to assumi (without any real hard facts to back it up, but going on 3 years of history and common sense) saw people only playing enough games to cap points for the week . Keep in mind that new system, I will remind you, was implemented by Blizzard to entice non-competitive players into using the arena system.

    Infact over the seasons there was a marked ''dumbing down'' of the point systems, both in terms of their structuring (and relation to the matches you played) and the items you received from it (with late-season competitive pvpers being thrown a bone in the form of T2 weapons.)

    Blizzard literally convinced you that another grind that could be boiled down to ''doing your weeklies'' was some groundbreaking, innovative system. It's the same exact gear grind that Rift currently has, just couched in different terms and sprinkled with a bit more ******** that people apparently care about. Like MM numbers. Or different color armor. Or titles. Whoop.

    As for the rest of it, sure. It's my opinion. But I phrased it rather open-endedly, instead of the OP's tactic of telling me that his opinion was mine as well.
    Last edited by Gazrael; 07-12-2011 at 05:01 AM.
    M'Nope.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Psykoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazrael View Post
    No. It has more to do with arena being garbage than anything.

    Then again I'm from the old honor guard wherein PvP for the fun of it was reward enough as it is. Maybe I'm just not hip to this new rush to make everything an e-sport so I can start waving my e-peen at everyone passing by and predicate my self-worth on a matchmaking number.
    As you would have said; unsubstantiated opinion.

    And going by your logic, all PvE bosses should drop epics, and even legendaries. As long as you just play, you should have access to all high end rewards, right?


    Seriously, suggest me your drugs. I'll give them a try just to know how is it to be awesome and cool like the best Defiant mage I have ever encountered in wfs!
    - Suldanesellar, fan of Lord Psykoz.

    Subscription cancelled 2011-08-18

  10. #10
    Banned Shadowprison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazrael View Post
    The last part? No. There was a posted mine that circulated long before I quit that showed the average number of games played in 2v2 and 3v3, the most active brackets. It is a fact that late season Wrath saw an unprecedented number of 10-game-a-week teams before the switch to the point cap- after which I'm going to assumi (without any real hard facts to back it up, but going on 3 years of history and common sense) saw people only playing enough games to cap points for the week . Keep in mind that new system, I will remind you, was implemented by Blizzard to entice non-competitive players into using the arena system.

    Infact over the seasons there was a marked ''dumbing down'' of the point systems, both in terms of their structuring (and relation to the matches you played) and the items you received from it (with late-season competitive pvpers being thrown a bone in the form of T2 weapons.)

    Blizzard literally convinced you that another grind that could be boiled down to ''doing your weeklies'' was some groundbreaking, innovative system. It's the same exact gear grind that Rift currently has, just couched in different terms and sprinkled with a bit more ******** that people apparently care about. Like MM numbers. Or different color armor. Or titles. Whoop.

    As for the rest of it, sure. It's my opinion. But I phrased it rather open-endedly, instead of the OP's tactic of telling me that his opinion was mine as well.
    The difference I see is: The top players are still top.

    WoW also has battlegrounds, so I doubt their idea was to have casuals play arena.

    Rift needs small scale PvP. This Zerg ball PvP is a bore.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psykoz View Post
    As you would have said; unsubstantiated opinion.

    And going by your logic, all PvE bosses should drop epics, and even legendaries. As long as you just play, you should have access to all high end rewards, right?
    As a matter of fact, the places all PvE bosses reside in, do drop epics.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Gazrael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psykoz View Post
    And going by your logic, all PvE bosses should drop epics, and even legendaries. As long as you just play, you should have access to all high end rewards, right?
    No. You go ahead and comb over my posts and find where I said PvP should be a loot pinata. Infact I believe one of my points was that arenas' ''success'' on a large scale was due to the pinata/10game/weekly pointcap/geturgear aspect. Go back and read over it, you seem to have missed it.

    Or better yet, keep arguing semantics and putting words in my mouth. It's getting you closer to proving that arena would be good for this game, I can feel it. I mean...I'm assuming that's what you're going for.
    Last edited by Gazrael; 07-12-2011 at 05:37 AM.
    M'Nope.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Psykoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snixar View Post
    As a matter of fact, the places all PvE bosses reside in, do drop epics.
    I'm sorry if I was being vague then.

    They should all drop the best in business PvE gear on all difficulties.

    Edit: To avoid any further confusion I'll say now that it was just a joke of a comparison.
    Last edited by Psykoz; 07-12-2011 at 05:38 AM.


    Seriously, suggest me your drugs. I'll give them a try just to know how is it to be awesome and cool like the best Defiant mage I have ever encountered in wfs!
    - Suldanesellar, fan of Lord Psykoz.

    Subscription cancelled 2011-08-18

  14. #14
    General of Telara Pippington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultrviolet View Post
    I don't play PvP much but I'm baffled by the backlash against arenas. Everyone complains about premades in their PUG games, so why not put the premades into arenas? It gives the premades the competition they want, and it gets them out of the PUG's hair. Why doesn't that make everyone happy?


    Because it doesn't (with a WoW implementation) actually DO either of the things you suggest it does. That's probably why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartolomeus D View Post
    Queueing solo should not place you in a warfront against opponents that queued as a group.

    It's that simple.

  15. #15
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultrviolet View Post
    I don't play PvP much but I'm baffled by the backlash against arenas. Everyone complains about premades in their PUG games, so why not put the premades into arenas? It gives the premades the competition they want, and it gets them out of the PUG's hair. Why doesn't that make everyone happy?
    sounds reasonable to me.

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