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Thread: Why Red vs Blue Encourages Ganking

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    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Default Why Red vs Blue Encourages Ganking

    In Free For All MMO PvP, ganking carries various consequences within the player community. Those who kill with impunity must find kindred spirits willing to stay their blade, lest they find themselves treated with suspicion and often killed on sight themselves. The person who spends all day killing lowbies will often ganked by fellow gankers, treated with suspicion by many, and approached with outright hostility by some.

    But in Red vs Blue PvP, what we have in Rift, ganking lowbies is entirely sanctioned. The same guy who spends all morning killing grey noobs in Stonefield or Gloamwood can be trusted implicitly when questing and rifting. There are no consequences for his actions, other than ticced off members of the other faction, and since both factions operate by Red=Dead mechanics anyway it really just doesn't matter.

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    Rift Disciple
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    So... pvp happened? Transfer to a pve today

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    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haddaway View Post
    So... pvp happened? Transfer to a pve today
    Read the OP, since you obviously didn't.

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    Shield of Telara
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    There is a point to this topic though.

    Back when MMO's didn't have factions and it was basically Free For All. It was up to the community to basically build a system of justice.

    And to be honest it worked wonders in my view compared to open world PvP with factions now.

    Back then Red=Dead but in a different view ( Thinking of UO here ), Murderers were Red, so the Good guys basically saw them and chased them out of the town surroundings.

    This was good but things change...

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    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkorian View Post
    There is a point to this topic though.

    Back when MMO's didn't have factions and it was basically Free For All. It was up to the community to basically build a system of justice.

    And to be honest it worked wonders in my view compared to open world PvP with factions now.

    Back then Red=Dead but in a different view ( Thinking of UO here ), Murderers were Red, so the Good guys basically saw them and chased them out of the town surroundings.
    ^ Exactly this. PvP with Consequences where there's no such thing as Faction Immunity, that just doesn't exist in Rift.

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    Rift Disciple Deadskin's Avatar
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    ahh... the good ole days.

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    8th
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    I've played a few MMO's where being killed came with the risk of your gear dropping... which was so awesome and so terrible at the same time.

    Being red increased the chances of drop



    Real Men PvP
    Dwarves are harder to target.

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  8. #8
    Shield of Telara
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    I personally think that even if there is factions and/or races there shouldnt be a written policy from the game developers saying you are always at war.

    I know the background of Warcraft for example is like this ( before they did WoW ) but in all honesty, I believe that having Alliance Vs Horde was stupid in the sense you couldn't talk to the opposite faction, you couldn't befriend the opposite faction and ALWAYS had to fight each other.

    This isn't anywhere near close to RPG in my books. Personally, if it were, in the fantasy type world, you could in fact befriend anyone and/or fight anyone. It's up to how you played your character.

    Geeze, I remember the good ol' story from Warhammer about Gotreks and Felix, and look at the complete difference between those two? But damn, they had a story.

    Factions vs Factions is only good if you still allow both sides to interact and/or choose if they want to be friends or fight.

    That's my view.

    Oh, and introduce stealing into Rift

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    Rift Disciple Laiboch's Avatar
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    There is a difference here. By definition Defiant and Guardians are at war. You see an enemy you kill them. Its that simple.

    If this were FFA then yes you would be correct, and community policing would come into effect. A ganker would become known and hated by all given time, but in a faction environment you really have no basis to your argument. I can see your point as there is a huge power difference between a lvl 50 and say a level 20, but with 0 penalty to death no loss of coin or gear Ganking simply becomes an inconvenience. Its like having to slow down for a school zone. Yes you have to go 20, but your through it in 30 seconds and back on your way.

    My real question is this: as it only takes a week to reach 50 where you can hide in instances all day traveling from dungeon to dungeon with out having to leave the comfort and safety of your own city why does it matter? Its not like you have expended any effort or taken any risk. The same for raids. One person goes there and poof everyone else gets a free ride. If you want to bring up a real issue in PVP it comes down to people that want to open world PVP instead of grinding instanced WF's not having any legit targets to go after because they are all hiding in cities.

    If you don't want to see lower level players ganked get off your butt and go out and fight. Of course this wont happen. Why risk open world PVP where you lose nothing when you can hide in an instance all day?

    I know instances wont change, but giving people a free ride from one side of the world to another is simply weak.

    So if you really want to blame anyone for the gankers going after lowbies take a moment and go look in a mirror. If you wont go out and defend your TEAM you have no right to complain. Rather than complain about it why dont you leave your fortress of immunity and go kill the ganker.
    Last edited by Laiboch; 06-22-2011 at 02:53 PM.

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    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8th View Post
    I've played a few MMO's where being killed came with the risk of your gear dropping... which was so awesome and so terrible at the same time.

    Being red increased the chances of drop
    Aye, there are a lot of interesting ways item looting could be done too, with tiered items and karma systems and soulbinding and what have you, in Shadowbane you could basically have an item protected so that it wouldn't drop. Loot rules are a big point of contention with the FFA crowd and the number one reason people tend to oppose FFA PvP though, but different servers could have different loot rules rendering most arguments moot.

  11. #11
    Sez
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    Its not a suggestion thread until someone mentions WoW
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

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    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laiboch View Post
    There is a difference here. By definition Defiant and Guardians are at war. You see an enemy you kill them. Its that simple.

    If this were FFA then yes you would be correct, and community policing would come into effect. A ganker would become known and hated by all given time, but in a faction environment you really have no basis to your argument.
    How is it that simple?

    Just because they are at wars does not mean you have to be involved. You could easily be a renegade or just a deserter, nomad even.. This is where RP comes in.

    And faction environment games you can in fact have a system like what I said earlier.

    Factions like they are just make it easier for PvPers. Which is good, don't get me wrong. Wars happen.

    But it's no different to older MMO's where they had Chaos and Order with Guilds. Same thing as now except Chaos could attack Chaos still and vise versa. Hence the FFA style.

    This builds the community more then what these Faction systems that WoW started and future MMO's took on board. ( bad idea )

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara NatashaK's Avatar
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    It does dumb down everything. You dont build alliances the same way. There isn't the same kind of backstabbing.

    In Lineage2 - which was FFA - tops guilds had divided them selves loosely into factions and you could kill enemies without consequences just like RIFT. But you could also kill anyone else - even in your guild or party - temporarily flagging you as a player killer.

  14. #14
    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laiboch View Post
    There is a difference here. By definition Defiant and Guardians are at war. You see an enemy you kill them. Its that simple.
    Honestly I think it's even more simple than that. Trion was lazy and lacked imagination so they gave us generic Red vs Blue PvP where there are only two factions who almost never cross paths outside of warfronts and lowbie ganking on PvP servers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laiboch View Post
    If this were FFA then yes you would be correct, and community policing would come into effect.
    Actually whether this were an FFA game or not has no bearing on whether the statements in the OP are correct or incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laiboch View Post
    A ganker would become known and hated by all given time, but in a faction environment you really have no basis to your argument.
    What argument do you think I have no basis for?

    Honestly your entire response appears to be directed at some imaginary thread, not against anything actually posted here.
    Last edited by Nerus; 06-22-2011 at 03:10 PM. Reason: Irrelevant quotes and response removed for the sake of brevity

  15. #15
    Shield of Telara
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    Rift could still have the theme it does now but still modify things to a FFA type.

    I never understand how they could put different races in the factions and make them have to be part of that faction.

    I'd rather just have a selection of different races with their themes. That's more of a fitting story line and better play style, especially from an RP sense then the current Factions.

    Honestly, does anyone especially the PvP players even take in the theme of Rift in regard to Factions?

    And don't just say Red is dead the lame nonsense most of you say regarding faction vs faction. There is more to it then just seeing the opposite faction and killing them.

    This is one of the main reasons MMO's especially the RPG ones lost what they had.

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