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Thread: Alternate "Break Free"

  1. #1
    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    Default Alternate "Break Free"

    First of all, I acknowledge that the alternate "Break Free" abilities are not working in accordance with the 1.2 patch notes (seven hot fixes after 1.2, the 1.2.1 patch, five hot fixes since 1.2.1., and 1.3 right around the corner)...

    All four Callings can 0 pt their PvP Soul to get Break Free. There are various Souls in various Callings that provide an alternate "Break Free" option. With this post, I'm looking at those that offer a "Break Free" from Control CC.

    Mage - Elementalist (Sever Bonds), Pyromancer (Flicker)
    Rogue - Bladedancer (Untangle), Ranger (Escape Artist), Riftstalker (Flashback)
    Warrior - Riftblade (Rift Walk), Paladin (Devotion), Reaver (Tempered Will)

    So a Mage has two, Rogues have three, and Warriors have three.

    Clerics have...Clerics have...Clerics have...

    ...well, Clerics have none that affect Control CC. Warden and Shaman each have one that will affect Movement CC - but no Cleric Soul outside of the PvP Soul Templar has a means to break Control CC.

    As an aside, Rogues have two additional alternate means to break Movement CC and Warriors have two more as well (three if you count the one in the PvP Soul Vindicator).

    But Clerics have no alternate "Break Free" abilities that break Control CC...

    ...again, as I noted first - the break everything abilities from the 1.2 notes do not break everything (Hell, Break Free itself does not break everything since the first hot fix after the 1.2 patch - you can be silenced and rooted and BF will only break the silence, leaving you rooted).

    But if we were to live in "Imaginary Patch Notes Matter Land" - one can see there is a rather odd discrepancy taking place in regard to the Callings.

    Mage - 2 alternates.
    Rogue - 3 alternates.
    Warrior - 3 alternates.
    Cleric...0.

    This actually allows Mages, Rogues, and Warriors to deal with Control CC without having to 0 pt their PvP Souls for Break Free. It allows for more builds. It gives options...that Clerics lack.

    The PTS 1.3 notes for Warriors states they are addressing Rift Walk and stuns (I never had an issue with stuns - but it never worked for Transmogrify). Still nothing about neither Sever Bonds nor Flicker not working with silences, but oh well. And nothing about any alternate "Break Free" Control CC abilities for Clerics.

    Do you think Trion will ever give Clerics some alternatives here...?

    Cause you know:

    Mages - 2.
    Rogues - 3.
    Warriors - 3.

    But Clerics... 0.
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    Clerics don't need it they can survive long enough to go immune and not be effected by CC. Clerics are hard enough to bring down, don't try and make it harder.
    -Irishgrimreaper <Hot Pink>
    Melee Rogue

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    aux
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    While they're at it, clerics need to be immune to damage.
    I'm so BORED

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
    Clerics don't need it they can survive long enough to go immune and not be effected by CC. Clerics are hard enough to bring down, don't try and make it harder.
    Then why have the Templar Soul if Clerics do not need "Break Free"...?

    Again, Mages have two alternates - Rogues and Warriors each have three alternates. Clerics have zero...none...zilch.

    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    While they're at it, clerics need to be immune to damage.
    Show us on the dolly where the bad Cleric touched you?

    * * * * *

    Face it, the alternate "Break Free" open up the possibilities for more variety in builds. If Sever Bonds and Flicker actually worked, I would have two more builds I could run on my Mage. If they actually fix Rift Walk with 1.3, I'd have another build I could run on my Warrior. As for my Clerics, nope - no love there at all.

    If people were honest about balance, they could not really argue against this. I'm on board with the healing is OP in the game - whether that healing is from Bards, Mages, or Clerics. It was designed for PvE - and just like damage which was designed for PvE - it is causing problems in PvP.

    Does not change that Mages have 2, Rogues and Warriors each have 3 alternates to Break Free for Control CC... does it?
    Kincayd (1)* - Omeki (1) - Comma (2) - Bugeisha (2) - Malphesiel (3)
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    Then why have the Templar Soul if Clerics do not need "Break Free"...?

    Again, Mages have two alternates - Rogues and Warriors each have three alternates. Clerics have zero...none...zilch.



    Show us on the dolly where the bad Cleric touched you?

    * * * * *

    Face it, the alternate "Break Free" open up the possibilities for more variety in builds. If Sever Bonds and Flicker actually worked, I would have two more builds I could run on my Mage. If they actually fix Rift Walk with 1.3, I'd have another build I could run on my Warrior. As for my Clerics, nope - no love there at all.

    If people were honest about balance, they could not really argue against this. I'm on board with the healing is OP in the game - whether that healing is from Bards, Mages, or Clerics. It was designed for PvE - and just like damage which was designed for PvE - it is causing problems in PvP.

    Does not change that Mages have 2, Rogues and Warriors each have 3 alternates to Break Free for Control CC... does it?
    i no clerics have one CC break, everyone has on in there PvP soul and one is enough for clerics, that's all I'm saying
    -Irishgrimreaper <Hot Pink>
    Melee Rogue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
    i no clerics have one CC break, everyone has on in there PvP soul and one is enough for clerics, that's all I'm saying
    So Clerics that want a Control CC "Break Free" must zero point Templar to get it...

    ...while Mages have two options not to take Archmage.
    ...while Rogues have three options not to take Infiltrator.
    ...while Warriors have three options not to take Vindicator.

    Mages:
    11 pts in Pyromancer gets Flicker - "Frees the caster from all control and movement impairing effects and teleports them 15 meters forward."
    38 pts in Elementalist gets Sever Bonds - "Breaks the hold of effects that remove the Mage from battle. All control and movement impairing effects are instantly removed from them and their pet."

    Rogues:
    44 pts in Bladedancer gets Untangle - "Removes all control and movement impairing effects and causes the Rogue to be immune to these effects for 8 seconds. Usable only if the Rogue is under the effect of control or movement impairing effects. This ability is not affected by global cooldown."
    20 pts in Ranger gets Escape Artist - "Removes all control and movement impairing effects. Usable only if the Rogue is under the effect of control or movement impairing effects. This ability is not affected by global cooldown."
    32 pts in Riftstalker gets Flashback - "The Rogue Plane Shifts to a location previously set by Memory Capture. Must be within 50 meters of that location. This removes all control and movement impairing effects."

    Warriors:
    21 pts in Riftblade gets Rift Walk - "Plane Shift to an enemy, the disruption of rift energy roots them for 2 seconds. Breaks all control and movement impairing effects. This ability grants 1 Attack Point."
    16 pts in Paladin gets Devotion - "Removes all hostile control effects."
    16 pts in Reaver gets Tempered Will - "Removes all hostile control effects."

    So as a Mage, if I do not want to eat the full duration of a Control CC - I have 3 options available to me (Break Free, Flicker, Sever Bonds). As a Rogue, I have four options (Break Free, Untangle, Escape Artist, Flashback). As a Warrior, I have four options (Break Free, Rift Walk, Devotion, Tempered Will). As a Cleric, I have one...Break Free.

    I can make a Pyro hybrid without AM. I can make an Elementalist hybrid with AM. I can make a BD hybrid without INF. I can make a Ranger hybrid without INF. I can make a RS hybrid without INF. I can make a RB hybrid without VIN. I can make a Pally hybrid without VIN. I can make a Reaver hybrid without VIN. If I'm just looking to deal with Control CC... I've got options! Woot! Woot!

    With a Cleric...not so much.
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    Champion of Telara Silverangel69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    So Clerics that want a Control CC "Break Free" must zero point Templar to get it...

    ...while Mages have two options not to take Archmage.
    ...while Rogues have three options not to take Infiltrator.
    ...while Warriors have three options not to take Vindicator.

    Mages:
    11 pts in Pyromancer gets Flicker - 38 pts in Elementalist gets Sever Bonds -
    Really mages have only one other option, and it's a big reason why I like to play that option. 38 pts in Ele is not really an option. Mages need it due to very low survivability. Clerics don't have so much of a problem with survivability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverangel69 View Post
    Really mages have only one other option, and it's a big reason why I like to play that option. 38 pts in Ele is not really an option. Mages need it due to very low survivability. Clerics don't have so much of a problem with survivability.
    Clerics don't have so much a problem with survivability... how so?

    Are you basing this solely off a couple of builds and ignoring that there are other builds out there?

    An Inq/Cab has survivability? A Sham/Druid has more survivability than a Nec/Lock?

    Um...yeah...er...

    As for 38 pts in Ele - if it actually worked for silence, it would become an option. As it stands now, no - it is not an option - nor is Flicker. Mages cast - silence prevents casting - with neither Sever Bonds nor Flicker working currently against silences...neither is really an option.
    Kincayd (1)* - Omeki (1) - Comma (2) - Bugeisha (2) - Malphesiel (3)
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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    You won't even get a nonbias answer from these people because not only do clerics have 124 skill points, every soul can heal tank and do massive damage.

    It's a wonder how the human race lasted this long.

    I agree with the OP. But I doubt even trion would care. They pander to the QQrs and clerics simply don't QQ loud enough.

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    Clerics get fear prevention from inq and interrupt/silence prevention from cab. They can't break them early but they can stop them from happening ahead of time which can be just as strong. Clerics shouldn't have as many options for breaking CC as other classes, especially not with them having access to 0pt instant cast heals or shields were most other callings get a redundant nuke or a nice little bonus, not a 2.2k crit heal on a short cooldown with a low mana cost.
    edit: not stun prevention from cab my bad
    Last edited by Adnoz; 06-21-2011 at 08:32 AM.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    Clerics get fear prevention from inq and stun/silence prevention from cab. They can't break them early but they can stop them from happening ahead of time which can be just as strong. Clerics shouldn't have as many options for breaking CC as other classes, especially not with them having access to 0pt instant cast heals or shields were most other callings get a redundant nuke or a nice little bonus, not a 2.2k crit heal on a short cooldown with a low mana cost.
    Which underlines ***-backwardness of the soul design.
    DPS trees get best ohshi buttons and energy management and passive healing. Healing trees get... weak-*** damage skills and silence.
    It is not only cleric like that btw.
    -- Trollhammer@Molinar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    Clerics get fear prevention from inq and interrupt/silence prevention from cab. They can't break them early but they can stop them from happening ahead of time which can be just as strong. Clerics shouldn't have as many options for breaking CC as other classes, especially not with them having access to 0pt instant cast heals or shields were most other callings get a redundant nuke or a nice little bonus, not a 2.2k crit heal on a short cooldown with a low mana cost.
    edit: not stun prevention from cab my bad
    Perseverance and Howling Death are kind of funny abilities. Neither lasts the 2 minutes they state - 1 min protection on a 2 min CD. You would need to go 12 INQ and 14 CAB to pick them up. As you edited, neither offers protection against Stun. Nor do them do anything about Disarm. They do nothing for a Mez.

    In no way would even having both of them be anywhere near the value of any of the alternate "Break Free" abilities that affect Control CC that the other three callings have.

    Then your comment heads over into the value of 0 pt abilities - which I find odd, but I can see where I might not have been clear. None of the alternate "Break Free" abilities listed are 0 pt abilities. I'm not looking to 0 pt another tree so as not to have to 0 pt Templar. I have two Clerics that are working toward 32-28-6 builds (each in a separate set of three Souls).

    But sure, let's look at the zero point abilities for the various Souls in the various Callings...

    Warrior:
    Beastmaster - Useless Pet, Dismiss Useless Pet, and an attack to increase the damage of said Useless Pet.
    Paladin - Attack to increase Block, Debuff Attack, Wimpy Finisher.
    Champion - Non-combat Gap Closer, Another Attack, Not as wimpy Finisher.
    Paragon - Dual-Weapon attack...uh, yeah.
    Reaver - Ranged DoT, Debuff Attack, Finisher.
    Riftblade - Non-Phys Melee Attack, Proc Dmg Buff.
    Void Knight - Another Attack, 5% non-phys Dmg Mitigation.
    Warlord - 5% chance to be missed, Debuff Attack.

    Rogue:
    Assassin - Proc Dmg Buff, Another Attack.
    Bard - Ranged Attack, Party Buff.
    Bladedancer - Dodge Buff, Finisher, Another Attack.
    Marksman - Ranged Attack w/Speed Buff.
    Nightblade - Another Attack, Ranged Attack, Finisher.
    Ranger - Another Attack, Finisher, Useless Pet, Dismiss Useless Pet.
    Saboteur - Ranged Attack, Ranged Finisher, Ranged AoE Snare.

    Mage:
    Archon - Another Ranged Attack w/target debuff and caster buff, Ranged DoT w/target debuff and caster buff.
    Chloromancer - Another Ranged Attack, Proc Heal from Dmg Buff.
    Dominator - Instant Ranged Attack, Control CC.
    Elementalist - Another Ranged Attack, Useless Pet, Dismiss Useless Pet.
    Necromancer - Another Ranged Attack, Useless Pet, Dismiss Useless Pet.
    Pyromancer - Another Ranged Attack, Instant w/CD Ranged Attack.
    Stormcaller - Another Ranged Attack, Knockback Damaging Channel.
    Warlock - Another Ranged Attack, Ranged DoT-HoT.

    Cleric:
    Cabalist - Another Ranged Attack (potential AoE).
    Druid - Another Attack, Useless Pet, Dismiss Useless Pet.
    Inquisitor - Another Ranged Attack, Ranged DoT.
    Justicar - Another Attack, Heal from Dmg Buff.
    Purifier - Another Ranged Attack, weak Shield.
    Sentinel - Another Ranged Attack, Instant Heal w/CD.
    Shaman - Another Attack, Dmg Proc Buff.
    Warden - Another Ranged Attack, HoT.

    Well then...er...so uh... how exactly are the Cleric 0 pt abilities superior to the other abilities?

    In the end, I figure it does come down to folks thinking that all Clerics have 51 pts in each of the 8 Souls and 21 pts in the PvP Soul (Hell, 51 pts there too why not, eh?)...

    ...but this is not about whether Clerics are OP (I think healing - regardless of Calling - is OP because of PvE).

    If people want balance, then they should want balance. If they just want the other guy nerfed...they're not interested in balance...

    ...and they're little more than lil' kids crying at that point.
    Last edited by VirusDancer; 06-21-2011 at 09:32 AM.
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  13. #13
    Shadowlander ItachiZaku's Avatar
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    As a cleric, I get 2 shotted through both bubbles from time to time and stunned/silenced when trying to cast anything that isn't insta cast. Having another escape option would be nice. Just this morning, I tried to keep track of how many abilities hit me for over 3K and ended up with 6 of them. Only R2 - 399 Valor atm. That is not survivability. Also, unless I passively prep a target, a decent dps can usually out dps my healing on a target.

    I'm not a good judge of target identification, so it could be a raw r1 getting analed by a top raid geared dude or a R6, not sure. 777 SP.
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  14. #14
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    This is the first thread that has ever made me feel sympathy for clerics. Not a lot mind, but still, it's a very good point.

    I dont think it is such a major issue with DR the way it is, as chances are evens in a busy WF that you'll be immune anyway, but if DR is ever actually fixed then this is a bit unbalanced.

    Sympathy for a cleric, this is a milestone for me, grats to the OP.

    P.S. could you just run through how many CC breakers each soul has please, I'm still not too sure ...

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