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Thread: Why open pvp can't work at the moment.

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Why open pvp can't work at the moment.

    There's no incentive.

    There are no areas where you could say ' I know the other side are going to be here, or crossing through here at fairly regular intervals so I can go cause some trouble'

    or ' If I start attacking this people are going to come and defend it because it would be disadvantageous for them to lose it.'

    Ultimately unless they introduce a zone which requires the taking and holding of certain points to give your side an advantage (for example if you could only enter a part of a zone if your side held all 4 towers which allowed you access to a certain dungeon/ certain rift.) That would focus people at certain areas and create a travel route for other players going to join them)) people will just sit and wait for wfs.

    Wfs/instanced pvp are instantly the death of open pvp (see warcraft...). Bad idea from the start. Adding a new larger warfront!!!....oh yes, that'll solve things.

  2. #2
    Ascendant -Swag-'s Avatar
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    I expect the 40v40 to have a Shrines of Bori-style incentive system. Something totally ridiculous, completely out of balance and loathed by anyone whose guild doesn't control it 24/7.
    Noco@Wolfsbane

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara mtndew's Avatar
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    Queuing in cities killed WoW WPvP. It was fine when you could queue at Barrens and Ashenvale for WSG - in fact that increased chances of pvp because of close proximity and long waits.

    Dungeon teleporters killed it too. WPvP in BRM was amazing and huge.


    I've attacked Barrens and Goldshire (I've played each side) hundreds of times just for fun. That was enough incentive for me and my friends.
    PVPimpin' Ain't PVEasy!

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaeris View Post
    There's no incentive.
    Gotta love today's gamers, want a reward for anything they do.

    The only incentive you should need is 'fun'. If it's not fun, don't do it.

    To get world pvp is simple, go to world invasions with friends and attack the opposite faction. Attack a town, people levelling will complain and will bring in 50s. Attack raid rifts.

    Now this requires friends/guild to do this and the main problem is people say there is no incentive.

    This makes me think, well you can't find it fun then, if the only way you will do it, is if you get a reward, you still get honour for kills don't you?

    There was no incentive to do world pvp in wow as well btw, but people still complain how flying mounts and lfd killed it.

    Luckily I've joined a guild who go out looking for world pvp, as it is fun, and that's the only incentive I need.

  5. #5
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    I've leveled way too many toons, and rarely encountered open PvP.

    Until my most recent one. Suddenly, on my mage who is now level 36, I've been having a great time with same level pvp. Some of it may have been that I lingered in Scarlet Gorge. I decided to do all of the Ancient Wardstones, and spent a lot of time running around in the small overlap area where both factions are given the same quests. I had quite a few awesome encounters with one or two of the enemy faction at around my same level.

    I expected that to disappear once I left that area, but I've actually ran into quite a bit of same-level PvP in Scarwood Reach. Today I got to enjoy fighting off Guardians while simultaneously aiding in the effort to take down the Harbinger of Alsbeth, an invasion boss.

    Which is all to say, that there are elements there for open PvP. They need to be expanded and refined, but they are there.

    1) Ancient Wardstones need rewards that really make them worth fighting over.
    2) Quests need to overlap far more, so after mid twenties the two factions are in each other's faces.
    3) We need some areas where respawn points are close enough to run back into battle, but far enough away that they make death frustrating, with terrain that can provide tactical interest, and low enough mob density that NPCs are a nuisance and can be used tactically, but don't choke out PvP.
    4) Make open PvP rewards as good as Warfront rewards.
    5) Somehow limit access to Warfronts, like you would for high end dungeons.

    I would love RvR with meaningful objectives, but I keep coming back to my experience in games where there was no incentive for world PvP but people organized groups and did it anyway. As far as I can think, this had to do with a lot of overlapping questing, including quests that lead you into the other teams quest hubs to kill faction NPCs, and some areas like I described in #3.

    Oh, and a lack of instanced PvP like warfronts. You're very much right there. If you hand people a McBurger, they'll eat it, even though what they really want is a steak. They'll complain, but keep on eating the McBurger. If they don't have the McBurger, they might just go out and cook their own steak.

    Trion already served up the McBurger; it's not likely it can be put back in the foil wrapper. It'd be nice if they gave us the option of more than a bite of steak, however.
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

  6. #6
    Ascendant Fujitasix's Avatar
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    Open world PvP will suffer from participation imbalances. Once a team is taught they're expected to lose, they usually will. And then they stop participating. Warfronts are the "solution" to at least getting an even number of heads in a battle. And then you get waaaaah premades, etc.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    A larger WF just means more queue time.
    Basically to have any form of RvR or open pvp - you need to know others will be there.

    So what we need is a permanent WF area, with all servers/factions involved and objectives and pve rewards to draw people out there for something to do while waiting in queues for other things.
    Basically you have to make it more attractive to be there than Sanctum/Meridian.

    The other issue is - regarding open pvp rewards - they need to remove 'tagging' from pvp. If you have more than one group fighting against the other side... whoever tags the other side first is the one that gets all the favour/prestige.
    Ceribaen, formerly of Nyx (D).
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  8. #8
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    Transfer to PVP server, Stillmoor, Shimmersand, IPP theres always lots of ganking.

  9. #9
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    The rare open world PvP I have encountered mainly consists of quester ganking. Sometimes larger parties will get together and try to lure out the other faction....mainly by engaging in quester ganking til someone comes to fight, if they ever do. Or after a zone invasion boss fight, the factions will clobber each other.

    No ownership of land and resources is a huge hinderence, people just aren't interested in lone wolf killing.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    why not? they should throw in some capturable forts or something or maybe just add on to ancient wardstones that they can be upgraded a bunch of levels and turned into outposts maybe.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psytic View Post
    why not? they should throw in some capturable forts or something or maybe just add on to ancient wardstones that they can be upgraded a bunch of levels and turned into outposts maybe.
    I've been wondering if it would help to have Ancient Wardstones be persistent. They would all show up on the map as either guardian or defiant. That way they wouldn't be overlooked, and there could be significant notices that pop up when one of your faction's AW's is under assault. You could also look at the map at any given time and see whether Guardian or Defiant was dominating a zone. That would lead to bragging rights. People could post time stamped "we dominated zone x" screenshots of entirel red or blue wardstoned zones. Then put the wardstones in every post-30 zone.
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekko View Post
    Gotta love today's gamers, want a reward for anything they do.

    The only incentive you should need is 'fun'. If it's not fun, don't do it.

    To get world pvp is simple, go to world invasions with friends and attack the opposite faction. Attack a town, people levelling will complain and will bring in 50s. Attack raid rifts.

    Now this requires friends/guild to do this and the main problem is people say there is no incentive.

    This makes me think, well you can't find it fun then, if the only way you will do it, is if you get a reward, you still get honour for kills don't you?

    There was no incentive to do world pvp in wow as well btw, but people still complain how flying mounts and lfd killed it.

    Luckily I've joined a guild who go out looking for world pvp, as it is fun, and that's the only incentive I need.
    Did you even read his post? His issue is giving level 50s incentives to be out in the world other than being in instances (warfront/dungeon/raid) or sitting in their capital cities. The fact of the matter is there is very little reason for level 50s to be outside of their capital city and Trion has added numerous additional guards to all the neutral cities since release.

    The level 50 zones are brimming full of npcs that get very little use by PvE players and greatly inhibits PvP. He is asking for Trion to spur world PvP by adding content that level 50s consider valuable in the open world. HE DID NOT ASK FOR GREATER PVP REWARDS LEARN TO READ.

  13. #13
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    Here is Scott Hartsman answer to controllable open world objectives. It was covered long ago.

    Hartsman: Here is why I love our designs. This is why we don't have things like an overt overworld territory control game between the two factions. As soon as you do that, you have the problem of having to guarantee that it's going to be 50/50 in order for the service to be fun. None of our PvP is based around the idea that you need that for PvP to be fun. We are designing around needing that.

  14. #14
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    Its true. A lot of people wont world pvp because there is no incentive, but also since there is no incentive, doing it is seen as just attempting to ruin it for others. That is all that can happen in world pvp. If they added incentives then people would have a good reason.

    Allow opposite factions to hold others outposts. While enemy controls your outposts, you can't use the port. Make some ingrediants for dailies be available only from towns that are capturable, and if you lose your town, you can't get the ingrediants. On the other end, the people in these leads get benefits. Of course then comes the balance between factions and people complaining.

    Allow world pvp to get double favor and prestiege or something. Just as it is now..the only thing world pvp serves is griefing

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydis View Post
    Just as it is now..the only thing world pvp serves is griefing
    A little overstated. I've had quite a bit of fun in some small, same level world pvp in Scarlet Gorge and Scarwood Reach. No objectives, just people of the opposite faction and one of us catches the other going about our business. We also had some larger PvP today between two spontaneous groups that were trying to defeat an invasion, and ran into each other.

    It's completely possible for some guilds to get together and start some world PvP, if they chose, purely for the fun of it. Unfortunately, a culture of doing this doesn't seem to have formed in Rift, and Trion hasn't give us much reason to do it.

    It'd be awesome if Trion gave us more reason for world PvP, but if players really wanted it they could make it happen just for the fun of it.

    Probably the biggest thing is that we have Warfronts, so PvPers aren't desperate enough to initiate their own group, open-world PvP.
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

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