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Thread: No more pve and pvp segregation.

  1. #1
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    Default No more pve and pvp segregation.

    I really don't get why people get so bent out of shape trying to keep the two so separated.

    I think the pvp souls should be a 4th soul as some have stated. Points should be purchased for favor (increasing amounts the higher you get). The souls should be reworked to accomidate this change, it should be similar to daoc, in that you improve quite a bit early on with passives and cd abilities gained, but takes alot longer to see improvements as you get more points. there should be no max in points, so there's always something to improve upon and work towards. The abilities obtained should improve pve performance as well.

    Pvp gear should either not exist, or remain as it is costing favor to buy, slowing down your pvp soul progression. So you could still do pvp only if you wanted, but you wouldn't get relics or better pve weapons. Pvp gear should not have valor.

    Valor should be a stat that works how it does today. However, it should be given as you level, a well as when you gain prestige ranks. I would say remove it completely, but I don't know how they would balance the dmg needed to take down pve bosses with much higher health vs players health.

    there should be something similar to darkness falls in daoc. Basically a pve dungeon that is not instanced, and both factions can enter. Only one side can enter at a time, and some open pvp objectives should determine who can enter, such as owning keeps or maybe something new rift style. Should be different sides that the factions enter at, and places to level at for lower levels, but plenty of stuff for higher levels to kill. including bosses, that would need rare drops in that it would need to have a decent respawn timer that would be somewhat farmable compared to raids.

    I enjoy rift, but it just doesn't feel right. There are two factions, but it feels more like 1 faction, and joining wfs is just picking teams for some little scimmage between that faction. I really dislike the segregation that players seem to demand between pvp and pve. Both should supplement each other for a complete gaming experience. while I think having instanced dungeons is ok..having everything instanced kinda ruins the whole mmo feel.

    I know all these changes would cause an outrage, especially from the pve crowd. I also know its far too drastic to ever expect these changes to happen. I just thought id throw it out there.

    Did I mention I missed daoc
    Last edited by Nooblet; 06-17-2011 at 02:40 AM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    Let's say you are a pvper "only" and all you do is pvp for gear using favor to get your upgrades and random green drops in the matches. Now after a month all the sudden someone new shows up in the WF with gear that makes your gear look like cardboard boxes.

    This player lulz around you with auto attack and kills you. You can see they don't have the same level of pvp skill as you, but the roflstomp you with their gear.

    Why should PVE'ers have superior gear to those who have been leveling, gearing, training, and learning pvp?

    They should be different because the mindsets of a pure pvp'er is different from a pure pve'er. People who do both usually just try to mix and match the best gear they can from both. Eventually, they will have full gear for both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekCrux View Post
    Let's say you are a pvper "only" and all you do is pvp for gear using favor to get your upgrades and random green drops in the matches. Now after a month all the sudden someone new shows up in the WF with gear that makes your gear look like cardboard boxes.

    This player lulz around you with auto attack and kills you. You can see they don't have the same level of pvp skill as you, but the roflstomp you with their gear.

    Why should PVE'ers have superior gear to those who have been leveling, gearing, training, and learning pvp?

    They should be different because the mindsets of a pure pvp'er is different from a pure pve'er. People who do both usually just try to mix and match the best gear they can from both. Eventually, they will have full gear for both.
    Did you even read what I said? The pvp player would have increased stats and cds from the pvp soul. I didn't go into the details of the pvp souls but they would need a major overhaul and include increased stats.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    Did you even read what I said? The pvp player would have increased stats and cds from the pvp soul. I didn't go into the details of the pvp souls but they would need a major overhaul and include increased stats.
    I read it. You titled your post no more pve and pvp segregation, yet you still described ways to split them using the souls and adding valor to rank/level and such.

    I stated my opinion based on the fact that your wanted no segregation, when there is a need for it. I gave a story to illustrate why I feel there needs to be. I also don't feel there is a problem with separate gear for pvp and pve.

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    You sound like you want someone who pvps 100% of their time to easily beat without competition a pve player, even if he is the better player, and spent just as much time progressing their character. You should win based on experience anyway. I don't think rewards for pvp should only effect pvp, and I don't think rewards for pve should only effect pve basically.
    Last edited by Nooblet; 06-17-2011 at 03:52 AM.

  6. #6
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    Honestly, I'd rather like to do PvP 100%, without -needing- to do PvE to improve. That'd be one big fat flaw, like it was in WoW, where if you wanted to improve your gear for PvP, then you'd also need some PvE items. Speaking for someone who thinks PvE is horribly boring, I say it was a nightmare. Using endless hours on something which you think is boring already, bleh.
    Last edited by Kittari; 06-17-2011 at 04:12 AM.

  7. #7
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    PS: Please remember that mixing white and black gives grey... And grey is probably the most unattractive color in the colorline there is, not to mention dusty. (Of course I refer to mixing PvE and PvP)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    You sound like you want someone who pvps 100% of their time to easily beat without competition a pve player, even if he is the better player, and spent just as much time progressing their character. You should win based on experience anyway. I don't think rewards for pvp should only effect pvp, and I don't think rewards for pve should only effect pve basically.
    This is confusing. You say that the person that PvP'd should not beat the person that PvE'd...

    ...even given:

    The person that spent 100% of their time progressing their character by fighting players.
    The person that spent 100% of their time progressing their character by fighting scripted encounters.

    Yet then state that experience should determine the outcome... so again:

    The person that spent 100% of their time progressing their character by fighting players.
    The person that spent 100% of their time progressing their character by fighting scripted encounters.

    Should not the person that PvP'd win? They have experience in PvP.

    As to the segregation... well, the first thing they would need to do is look at how they develop PvE. It is Tank 'n Spank w/Heals.

    You have a group of 5 players. 1 Tank, 1 Heals, 3 DPS. Your very basic group.

    You have the meatshield that holds aggro on multiple mobs (or a boss/mini-bosses). You have heals that needs to be able to keep that tank alive. To show increasing difficulty - NPCs have more health and hit harder. A single NPC has much more health than a player. They also tend to do as much if not more damage than a player.

    Right off the back...your PvP is going to be broken. In trying to fix things for PvP, they look at reducing the damage done and increasing the health of players... PvP gear as opposed to PvE gear. Often, they find that this is not working and add in some third stat to further reduce the damage done (since the damage required for PvE only increases...increases...increases). This often will send things out of whack for healing, as healing needs to keep up with PvE damage taken - yet all the PvP damage is being reduced.

    So it goes around and around...around and around - nerf bats and buff bats swinging wildly...

    ...when the issue is simply how PvE encounters are designed. Everything is a band-aid that never quite works.
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  9. #9
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    Why would anyone think they should be rewarded with superior PvP performance for ignoring half the game? This is just silly.

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    Wow is reading that hard? I guess u need to play daoc to understand

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    Wow is reading that hard? I guess u need to play daoc to understand
    Asking somebody to play DAoC should violate Trion's Code of Conduct...

    ...if not the Geneva Conventions' subsection on MMORPG forums.
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    Basically, instead of getting a reward of valor for pvping, you get to buy points to get passive and cooldown abilities, similar to daoc realm points.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    You sound like you want someone who pvps 100% of their time to easily beat without competition a pve player, even if he is the better player, and spent just as much time progressing their character. You should win based on experience anyway. I don't think rewards for pvp should only effect pvp, and I don't think rewards for pve should only effect pve basically.

    I never claimed anything, but it is amazing you know so much about my skills without knowing a single thing about me. Ignorance knows no bounds with baseless assumption online.

    I'm just saying I disagree and I think that pvp and pve would benefit more from being separate. The more you play pvp, the larger the advantage you will earn against players. The longer you pve, the larger the advantage you will earn against npc.

    DAoC is crap. If it is so great, go play it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    I really don't get why people get so bent out of shape trying to keep the two so separated.

    Pvp gear should either not exist, or remain as it is costing favor to buy, slowing down your pvp soul progression. So you could still do pvp only if you wanted, but you wouldn't get relics or better pve weapons. Pvp gear should not have valor.
    Look at your first sentence.

    Now look at the next set.

    You don't think the two should be segregated, yet you don't think PvP'ers should have access to the same quality gear that PvE'rs get?

    Reading the entire post, PvP'ers want a game where they can PvP, with gear on par to a PvE'r without having to go do all the raiding and such they don't like. If a PvE'r dosen't like PvP and dosen't do PvP, there is ZERO negative impact for that person.

    If a PvP'er dosen't like PvE, and only goes about playing through the PvP portions of the game, they are at a massive disadvantage to the PvE player, in gear, time invested to 50, time invested to gear at 50, massive difference in the cash earned just on the way to 50, let alone barely making any money once you are 50 and PvPing.

    As it stands you HAVE to PvE to be able to even get some of the basic gear covered, remember, PvP offers NO planerite, and no rift loot drops from players.

    All the PvP'ers really want is to be able to play (if they so choose) their favortie aspect of the game, and not be forced into the PvE and raid scene. The same thing PvE players can choose to do. However, if a player decides to do both, that (with the new gear that is becoming available) player can get a massive advantage. Why should you be FORCED into doing both PvE and PvP just so you can perform at the top level in PvP? You do not need to do both for maximum PvE efficiency, and in the majority of cases, there is almost no advantage to PvPing for gear to use in a PvE raid.

    Want to stop the segregation, make all levels of all gear available to both PvP's and PvE's with the average time to aquire the top end gear being relatively the same. As far as the PvP soul overhaul goes, I'm more in favor of what Visions had suggested in his thread on the matter.

    Cheers.

  15. #15
    Fik
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekCrux View Post
    Let's say you are a pvper "only" and all you do is pvp for gear using favor to get your upgrades and random green drops in the matches. Now after a month all the sudden someone new shows up in the WF with gear that makes your gear look like cardboard boxes.

    This player lulz around you with auto attack and kills you. You can see they don't have the same level of pvp skill as you, but the roflstomp you with their gear.

    Why should PVE'ers have superior gear to those who have been leveling, gearing, training, and learning pvp?

    They should be different because the mindsets of a pure pvp'er is different from a pure pve'er. People who do both usually just try to mix and match the best gear they can from both. Eventually, they will have full gear for both.
    unbelievably hypocritical.

    Everyone can pve, and it's easier and les frustrating to gear and there is a thing called progression. PVP does not have any at all at 50, either you grind and get stomped, or you do the opposite. Most don't make it far with the way it is right now.

    With all this said, offer PVE items as PVP rewards, both equal no fuss. This in fact may make a pvp'er hit upa raid one day, bc he can now, and back and forth.

    But what everything boils down too, is Trions money grab grind. The longer they can keep you grinding the more money they think they will get.
    Last edited by Fik; 06-17-2011 at 10:27 PM.

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