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Thread: No more pve and pvp segregation.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fik View Post
    unbelievably hypocritical.

    Everyone can pve, and it's easier and les frustrating to gear and there is a thing called progression. PVP does not have any at all at 50, either you grind and get stomped, or you do the opposite. Most don't make it far with the way it is right now.

    With all this said, offer PVE items as PVP rewards, both equal no fuss. This in fact may make a pvp'er hit upa raid one day, bc he can now, and back and forth.

    But what everything boils down too, is Trions money grab grind. The longer they can keep you grinding the more money they think they will get.
    Hypocritical is to say you don't do something, when you do. Or to say one thing and do another behind someone's back. I don't understand your insult since nothing I said fits your insult.

    I'll just respond to what you said rather than your insult, whatever you mean by it.

    Trion in it for the money? Yes, aren't all businesses.

    Would it be cool to go back and forth with the same gear for pvp and pve? You say yes. I do not agree with you, but that is only my opinion. I am intitled to one just like you or the OP. The progression of pvp and pve are not even near the same type of playstyle and I do not agree with people putting in time with pve to advance their pvp gear. I just do not agree with it. Even if it is a time sink. I still do not agree with it. Just because I can see the marketing behind the game doesn't mean I have to hate it.

    I don't hate coke for advertising when I'm at the movies, just because I understand marketing and the fact they sell coke at the refreshments stand.

    I don't want to speak for every pvper out there, but I get the feeling most true pvp players do not care one bit about pve raids. The idea of following a set of instructions for win is not what pvp players are looking for. They are looking for unexpected strategies. They are looking for more real encounters. pvp is much more exciting for them because the outcome of an engagement is not standardized like pve becomes.

    I would like to have my opinion. You can disagree all you want. You can say it is a horrible opinion and attack my opinion as much as you want. Just remember I can do the same and that doesn't make me unbelievably hypocritical.

  2. #17
    Rift Disciple Quiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    You sound like you want someone who pvps 100% of their time to easily beat without competition a pve player, even if he is the better player, and spent just as much time progressing their character. You should win based on experience anyway. I don't think rewards for pvp should only effect pvp, and I don't think rewards for pve should only effect pve basically.
    I PvP 100% of the time, no exceptions. I have not touched a single dungeon or raid on this character. If you were to walk up into a warfront and use PvE gear, id expect you to get your **** pushed in by myself or anyone else thats worked to actually be the better PvPer.

    All the PvE fanatics get all bent out of shape because "PvP gear is overpowered" well let me tell you this, rank 6 weapons are a piece of trash, but alas, because we are PvPers we get one set of gear. We deal with it, you should to.


    All I really have to say to make the argument null is "Vault of Archavon."

    "Oh bro, how long did it take you to get full tier gear?!?!"
    "LOLOLOL, I just ran Vault once a week and ninja'd that ****. Took me about 2 months!!!"

    Work for your gear, and know that its suited for what you do. End of story.
    Last edited by Quiver; 06-19-2011 at 03:12 AM.
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  3. #18
    Plane Touched ginzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekCrux View Post
    I never claimed anything, but it is amazing you know so much about my skills without knowing a single thing about me. Ignorance knows no bounds with baseless assumption online.

    I'm just saying I disagree and I think that pvp and pve would benefit more from being separate. The more you play pvp, the larger the advantage you will earn against players. The longer you pve, the larger the advantage you will earn against npc.

    DAoC is crap. If it is so great, go play it.
    they should be kept separate ... separate games entirely. its sad this is how its become now that pvpe players and pvp players cant live together without demanding gear that pretty much means ez-mode wins against the other. but as i say the only way i see to keep both happy is playing diffrent games entirely
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  4. #19
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    There's more than one statement in your post, so it would be pointless just to reply /agree or /disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    I really don't get why people get so bent out of shape trying to keep the two so separated.
    Because there are many players who only care about one and not the other. The PvE crowd want to hear "PvP will be kept separate, we won't mess up pve balance to address PvP complaints/whining". The PvP crowd want to hear "there will be more PvP content; you won't have to PvE to PvP". A game fundamentally designed around PvP (like DAoC) can mix the two more easily because, by definition, it will only attract players predominantly interested in PvP. A game fundamentally designed around PvE can either let PvE progression be an advantage in PvP (early WoW) because it will at most upset a small number of players, or keep the two mostly separate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    I think the pvp souls should be a 4th soul as some have stated. Points should be purchased for favor (increasing amounts the higher you get). The souls should be reworked to accomidate this change, it should be similar to daoc, in that you improve quite a bit early on with passives and cd abilities gained, but takes alot longer to see improvements as you get more points. there should be no max in points, so there's always something to improve upon and work towards.
    Good idea. Others have suggested this as well. 3 souls + PvP soul means more build variety and that is only ever a good thing. Continuous improvement with most of the benefits coming fairly early on are also a good idea. I've always been partial to the idea that the higher ranks don't make you more powerful in terms of raw numbers (damage, mitigation, healing), but give you versatiliy (e.g. non-healers get a rez on a big cd). So the higher level player can't just annihilate lower level players through sheer numbers, but still brings something extra to the table.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    The abilities obtained should improve pve performance as well.
    No. This is a PvE game. This will never fly. Just look at how much whining there was about plaque prices. People would run riot at the suggestion that you could get raid geared by having fun rather than mindlessly grinding the same scripted encounters until the god of RNG shows mercy and spits out the item you need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    Pvp gear should either not exist, or remain as it is costing favor to buy, slowing down your pvp soul progression. So you could still do pvp only if you wanted, but you wouldn't get relics or better pve weapons. Pvp gear should not have valor.

    Valor should be a stat that works how it does today. However, it should be given as you level, a well as when you gain prestige ranks. I would say remove it completely, but I don't know how they would balance the dmg needed to take down pve bosses with much higher health vs players health.
    Without PvP gear, PvPers would have to PvE to PvP (unless you're suggesting that gear has no effect in PvP; that's radical, but I would happily give that a go). Many don't want to do that. The alternative would be full loot world PvP. In other words, there would be two ways of gaining shiny loot: farming PvE bosses or ambushing the poor sod who just killed scary dragon the 20th time for his relic weapon the moment he steps out of the instance. Sadly, that's never going to happen in a PvE game.

    Valor is a crutch, but a necessary one. I'm sure Blizzard and Trion have though hard about it, but they haven't come up with a different solution to Resilience/Valor. It doesn't have to be on gear, but putting it on gear (and making it eat into item budget) means that PvP gear is inferior in a PvE setting, which imo is unavoidable in a predominantly PvE game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    there should be something similar to darkness falls in daoc. Basically a pve dungeon that is not instanced, and both factions can enter. Only one side can enter at a time, and some open pvp objectives should determine who can enter, such as owning keeps or maybe something new rift style. Should be different sides that the factions enter at, and places to level at for lower levels, but plenty of stuff for higher levels to kill. including bosses, that would need rare drops in that it would need to have a decent respawn timer that would be somewhat farmable compared to raids.

    I enjoy rift, but it just doesn't feel right. There are two factions, but it feels more like 1 faction, and joining wfs is just picking teams for some little scimmage between that faction. I really dislike the segregation that players seem to demand between pvp and pve. Both should supplement each other for a complete gaming experience. while I think having instanced dungeons is ok..having everything instanced kinda ruins the whole mmo feel.

    I know all these changes would cause an outrage, especially from the pve crowd. I also know its far too drastic to ever expect these changes to happen. I just thought id throw it out there.

    Did I mention I missed daoc
    I would like world PvP. I don't think you'll find a poster here who doesn't. If the only way we can have world PvP is to create PvE content that must be unlocked by PvP then so be it. I'd like to think that PvPers could be convinced to come out because, you know, PvP is fun and not because there's a chance to farm some boss that does a cleave every 10 secs and a bit of a firestorm every minute for some quick fix of the purple stuff.

    TLDR: Some like PvP and PvE. Not everyone does.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atavist View Post
    There's more than one statement in your post, so it would be pointless just to reply /agree or /disagree.



    Because there are many players who only care about one and not the other. The PvE crowd want to hear "PvP will be kept separate, we won't mess up pve balance to address PvP complaints/whining". The PvP crowd want to hear "there will be more PvP content; you won't have to PvE to PvP". A game fundamentally designed around PvP (like DAoC) can mix the two more easily because, by definition, it will only attract players predominantly interested in PvP. A game fundamentally designed around PvE can either let PvE progression be an advantage in PvP (early WoW) because it will at most upset a small number of players, or keep the two mostly separate.



    Good idea. Others have suggested this as well. 3 souls + PvP soul means more build variety and that is only ever a good thing. Continuous improvement with most of the benefits coming fairly early on are also a good idea. I've always been partial to the idea that the higher ranks don't make you more powerful in terms of raw numbers (damage, mitigation, healing), but give you versatiliy (e.g. non-healers get a rez on a big cd). So the higher level player can't just annihilate lower level players through sheer numbers, but still brings something extra to the table.



    No. This is a PvE game. This will never fly. Just look at how much whining there was about plaque prices. People would run riot at the suggestion that you could get raid geared by having fun rather than mindlessly grinding the same scripted encounters until the god of RNG shows mercy and spits out the item you need.



    Without PvP gear, PvPers would have to PvE to PvP (unless you're suggesting that gear has no effect in PvP; that's radical, but I would happily give that a go). Many don't want to do that. The alternative would be full loot world PvP. In other words, there would be two ways of gaining shiny loot: farming PvE bosses or ambushing the poor sod who just killed scary dragon the 20th time for his relic weapon the moment he steps out of the instance. Sadly, that's never going to happen in a PvE game.

    Valor is a crutch, but a necessary one. I'm sure Blizzard and Trion have though hard about it, but they haven't come up with a different solution to Resilience/Valor. It doesn't have to be on gear, but putting it on gear (and making it eat into item budget) means that PvP gear is inferior in a PvE setting, which imo is unavoidable in a predominantly PvE game.



    I would like world PvP. I don't think you'll find a poster here who doesn't. If the only way we can have world PvP is to create PvE content that must be unlocked by PvP then so be it. I'd like to think that PvPers could be convinced to come out because, you know, PvP is fun and not because there's a chance to farm some boss that does a cleave every 10 secs and a bit of a firestorm every minute for some quick fix of the purple stuff.

    TLDR: Some like PvP and PvE. Not everyone does.
    Thank you for an actual intelligent answer with some thought put into it. I guess I am in the minority that likes PvP 75% of the time, but still enjoys PvE if its going to progress my character(in either aspect of the game).
    Right now there is nothing at all to work towards in PvP. Basically my problem with Rift is, WHAT NOW? I can continue to grind the same 4 WFs(yes its a grind when its repeating the same thing over and over) and get no progress to my character.(it doesnt need to be huge, just SOMETHING to make it feel like there's something to work towards)

  6. #21
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    Thank you for an actual intelligent answer with some thought put into it. I guess I am in the minority that likes PvP 75% of the time, but still enjoys PvE if its going to progress my character(in either aspect of the game).
    Right now there is nothing at all to work towards in PvP. Basically my problem with Rift is, WHAT NOW? I can continue to grind the same 4 WFs(yes its a grind when its repeating the same thing over and over) and get no progress to my character.(it doesnt need to be huge, just SOMETHING to make it feel like there's something to work towards)
    Wholly agree that there's got to be more than the 4 WFs. I don't know if the zerg v zerg warfront will fix things, but at least it'll be something new.

    In terms of your desire for something to work towards in PvP, I'd be quite hopeful. Rift is a carrot-on-a-stick game, so there's bound to be a new carrot sooner or later. I can see Trion introduce some sort of max-lvl advancement system that may have a PvP side to it (like realm ranks or something). They'll just have to design an AA system that fits with the modular soul system, but I don't see why they shouldn't pull it off.

    Longer term, there needs to be world PvP. Maybe the PvP World Events will help in that regard. A lot of mmo players tend to expect the worst in order to be pleasantly surprised if anything other than a complete failure ensues. Looking at some of the games that launched in the last few years it's easy to see why. Trion have done quite well; I'm almost tempted to give them the benefit of the doubt... Certainly if you have enjoyed most of the content they've delivered so far (as you seem to have done, reading between the lines) I'd be quite optimistic that Rift will continue to be a good game for you.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atavist View Post
    Wholly agree that there's got to be more than the 4 WFs. I don't know if the zerg v zerg warfront will fix things, but at least it'll be something new.
    Ive actually thjought about it, it could be awesome if they remember what Rift's all about, dynamic content, so big zone dynamic objectives different for different days etc. That could work. Enough objectives so zerg needs to splut up. TW just make sure you dont forget DYNAMIC, or I come there and kick your face.

    But yeah I doubt, see how much they love raiding, its gonna be some lameass PVPE zone where raiders raid and who do it better wins and we PVPers the 2nd class citizens just run into those raids and get asskicked.
    Last edited by June; 06-19-2011 at 07:43 AM.

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