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Thread: Leadership Opt-in

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    Champion Stratacaster's Avatar
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    Default Leadership Opt-in

    Trion.

    I hear you are currently working on the match making system and was wondering if you might consider adding a feature while your at it.

    Add a leadership opt-in to the warfront queue screen that would give those that opt-in a leadership preference over those that do not. If multiple people are opted-in then the first to enter would receive leadership. Please include a leadership icon for the raid to see.

    I ask this because there are a lot of people that become the leader but don't know it. A good many are not reading WF/RA chat so telling them they are lead doesn't always work. Even if they do many do not know how to remote target for marking, or how to tell who needs to be marked.

    This would assure that those who wish to take up the leadership responsibility could, and those who do not won't have to be pressured into that role.

  2. #2
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    i can't believe how many people hit that join button right when it pops up, get lead, and don't even know how to see who is healing, what a healer looks like, how to mark targets. Just oh my...

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    Champion Vaeranth's Avatar
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    I am absolutely astonished that people attribute losing games due to lack of the leader marking targets.

    I'm not trolling, and I don't mean to sound like an ***, but if your team needs healers marked to win - then you don't deserve to win.

    Good players can find the healers easily, bad players won't target them whether they have a mark or not.

    If you need to look for a number to find the healer, you aren't a good player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeranth View Post
    I am absolutely astonished that people attribute losing games due to lack of the leader marking targets.

    I'm not trolling, and I don't mean to sound like an ***, but if your team needs healers marked to win - then you don't deserve to win.

    Good players can find the healers easily, bad players won't target them whether they have a mark or not.

    If you need to look for a number to find the healer, you aren't a good player.
    This is wrong. Marking targets is incredibly useful both for premades on vent as well as pugs. Having a capable leader than can correctly adjust marks on the fly is huge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratacaster View Post
    Trion.

    I hear you are currently working on the match making system and was wondering if you might consider adding a feature while your at it.

    Add a leadership opt-in to the warfront queue screen that would give those that opt-in a leadership preference over those that do not. If multiple people are opted-in then the first to enter would receive leadership. Please include a leadership icon for the raid to see.

    I ask this because there are a lot of people that become the leader but don't know it. A good many are not reading WF/RA chat so telling them they are lead doesn't always work. Even if they do many do not know how to remote target for marking, or how to tell who needs to be marked.

    This would assure that those who wish to take up the leadership responsibility could, and those who do not won't have to be pressured into that role.
    I think this is a great idea.

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    Shadowlander Zoojersey's Avatar
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    Totally agree for an opt in.

    For those who do not understand how lead is assigned, it is quite simple, the first person who joins receives lead, in other words, by default, if you are in Group 1 Slot 1 of a warfront, then you have lead. To assign someone else lead, you need to target their name or character and right click which brings up a menu that allows you to promote them to lead.

    Changing lead can be bugged in a warfront, as I have asked for lead and the person who has passed me lead still shows as having lead, but on his/her end shows me as having lead. I have also passed lead and still retained lead. And lastly, I have had lead passed to me, yet a 3rd person has received lead. These are some other kinks which need attention, although with an opt in, lead would more than likely not change hands to often if at all.

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    Champion Vaeranth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    This is wrong. Marking targets is incredibly useful both for premades on vent as well as pugs. Having a capable leader than can correctly adjust marks on the fly is huge.
    For a community which cries bloody murder about addons coming to the game (because they "dumb down the game"), there are two things they sure love the hell out of:

    1) Being spoonfed the target they are too dumb to find

    2) Spamming ridiculous macros with 19 abilities in them.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeranth View Post
    For a community which cries bloody murder about addons coming to the game (because they "dumb down the game"), there are two things they sure love the hell out of:

    1) Being spoonfed the target they are too dumb to find

    2) Spamming ridiculous macros with 19 abilities in them.
    Are you really trying to argue that teaming up and focusing fire is a bad thing or somehow not an effective strategy?

    What does this have to do with macros at all? Nothing. I like pie!

  9. #9
    Champion Stratacaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeranth View Post
    I am absolutely astonished that people attribute losing games due to lack of the leader marking targets.

    I'm not trolling, and I don't mean to sound like an ***, but if your team needs healers marked to win - then you don't deserve to win.

    Good players can find the healers easily, bad players won't target them whether they have a mark or not.

    If you need to look for a number to find the healer, you aren't a good player.
    So is that a -1 against providing an opt-in feature?

    Anyone who doesn't want to mark is free to not opt-in for leadership (maybe I should have mentioned that). This feature would allow those who do want marks the oppurtunity to do so while providing an out for those who do not wish to mark.
    Last edited by Stratacaster; 06-14-2011 at 01:04 PM.

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    Shadowlander Zoojersey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeranth View Post
    I am absolutely astonished that people attribute losing games due to lack of the leader marking targets.

    I'm not trolling, and I don't mean to sound like an ***, but if your team needs healers marked to win - then you don't deserve to win.

    Good players can find the healers easily, bad players won't target them whether they have a mark or not.

    If you need to look for a number to find the healer, you aren't a good player.
    Talk about "absolutely astonished". You are so close minded, marking is not only for healers, I mark opposing high damage dps targets, and also tanks, simple to say dont attack 6, he is a tank.

    Also, when the high value targets such as healers are marked, I not only know who they are, to focus fire, but also where they are not. If I see 6 guys going to a location, and none have numbers over their heads, I'll probably be more inclined to join 3-4 other team players rushing to kill them. There is simply no benefit to not using marks.

  11. #11
    Champion Vaeranth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoojersey View Post
    Talk about "absolutely astonished". You are so close minded, marking is not only for healers, I mark opposing high damage dps targets, and also tanks, simple to say dont attack 6, he is a tank.

    Also, when the high value targets such as healers are marked, I not only know who they are, to focus fire, but also where they are not. If I see 6 guys going to a location, and none have numbers over their heads, I'll probably be more inclined to join 3-4 other team players rushing to kill them. There is simply no benefit to not using marks.
    So you are saying you can't sort the scoreboard by damage and find the top person without the help of a mark?

    And to be clear: I do think it is a helpful tool.

    However, I find it unfortunate that it seems some people can't figure out who to target without someone else holding their hand.

    Yesterday I was in 2 Warfronts where people were contributing the losses to lack of marks in WF chat and I was baffled.

  12. #12
    Champion Vaeranth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    Are you really trying to argue that teaming up and focusing fire is a bad thing or somehow not an effective strategy?
    Are you really trying to argue that the average player is somehow incapable of learning to team up and focus fire without the use of marks?

    What does this have to do with macros at all? Nothing. I like pie!
    What it has to do with macros, is that people claim they make the game "too easy", but somehow marking targets doesn't do the same?

    Not really sure how it was hard for you to figure out the similarities between the two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeranth View Post
    For a community which cries bloody murder about addons coming to the game (because they "dumb down the game"), there are two things they sure love the hell out of:

    1) Being spoonfed the target they are too dumb to find

    2) Spamming ridiculous macros with 19 abilities in them.
    its not always about being able to spot healers.

    maybe the dps players all know how to spot and target heals but because they are not marked, they are all being attacked instead of the team focusing on one at a time.

    why is this such a hard concept to grasp? assisting doesn't happen in pugs, we all know that by now, especially with the poor UI in its current state which makes assisting someone in a pug a huge chore. In premades, you can set up assist macros and mark the targets for the pugs you are carrying, but in a full pug, marking targets gives a way higher chance for a victory.

    When I get lead in a black garden, I have healers marked before you can even see the team running towards the center, and most of those matches go well. If we don't get marks, then most of those matches are just hopeless losses.

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    General of Telara Sarathor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeranth View Post
    I am absolutely astonished that people attribute losing games due to lack of the leader marking targets.

    I'm not trolling, and I don't mean to sound like an ***, but if your team needs healers marked to win - then you don't deserve to win.

    Good players can find the healers easily, bad players won't target them whether they have a mark or not.

    If you need to look for a number to find the healer, you aren't a good player.
    You're opinions are not the same as mine.

    Sarathor@Byriel Rank 7 Defiant Mage - retired
    Bonqueequee@Byriel Rank 1 Guardian Rogue

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    Shadowlander Zoojersey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeranth View Post
    So you are saying you can't sort the scoreboard by damage and find the top person without the help of a mark?
    No, I guess I wasnt clear when I stated, "I mark opposing high dps targets", the way I find out they are "high dps targets" is by the scoreboard or previous warfronts.

    Trust me, I want players to use your methods, in fact I encourage them. If I'm riding in with 9 other players and you would like to tab target all of us, check all our names on the scoreboard, see what class we are, then see what role we are, I would agree, you are making an informative decision on who to attack first, I would also like to state, I think it would be alot easier, if for example, the healer in our group was marked with a #1 over his head.

    Enough for me on this topic, it's a great idea, and I see no reason why Trion would not implement it.

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