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Thread: Putting the myth to rest: PvP Gear vs Raid Gear

  1. #1
    Ascendant Satiar's Avatar
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    Default Putting the myth to rest: PvP Gear vs Raid Gear

    I've seen this pop up time and time again on these forums.

    There is this strange, widely-believed myth that a player geared with Raid (GSB-RoS) items has an advantage over a player with R5-R6 gear.

    I have found this to be definitively not true. No matter of the weapons (relic) or slight dex/crit/ap bonus from Raid Gear, the 30%+ damage mitigation from full valor has always proven to be a far more massive advantage in PvP combat.

    At least it has for me.

    It's been a little pet peeve of mine for a while, seeing this fallacy consistently brought up in all sorts of PvP threads. It's time for it to stop. Seriously. Stop. It's not even funny anymore. It's just wrong. People without Valor are squishy as all hell (read: free favor). A little extra damage is pitiful compared to how squishy they are.



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    Last edited by Satiar; 06-13-2011 at 09:09 AM.
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  2. #2
    Rift Master
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    i think your missing the point, wat your saying does make sense.

    but when somone is in full P6 with relic weapons, they have a higher dps output then someone with P6 weapons, which is just wrong...


    because the people that have alot, and i mean alot of time in their hands to get both the best pve and pvp gear, have an edge over someone just focusing 1 way.


    which i don't see a big deal, relic weaps are suppose 2 be the best, but thats what people are talking about..

    and so im clearing it up for you, sadly ill never see a relic weapon in my hand
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  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    Well the man said it so obviously its true....

    Honestly its class based.. a dps ranged class that doesn't get focused as much will be better with more bursty gear on akaraid gear

    Also with a solid healer warrior dps classes will put out more dmg in raid gear then in pvp gear so he will die faster but do alot more dmg but with solid healing he wont die at all.

    And from what i heard pve is getting full relic sets... while pvp gear is staying the same with nothing new added...

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    It's not really about winning fights. It's about having stuff. This is an MMO. Someone having "better" stuff than you is a *really big deal* and deserves a river of forum tears. Regardless of whether or not they actually put that stuff to use to beat you or not.

    To repeat: MMO. Having the "best" stuff is not a means to an end, it *is* the end for 90% of the players. So what if in practice I actually beat PvE-geared people most of the time? THEY HAVE BETTER STUFF THAN ME. THIS CANNOT STAND.

    I mean, ask people what they are going to use their uber-leet stuff for once they get it. This will confuse them; they won't understand what you are talking about. They aren't getting uber-leet stuff to *use* it for anything. Let alone to win stupid PvP matches. They are getting the best stuff to have the best stuff. That is the point of the game for them. And if other people have better stuff than they do, well the devs better do something about it.
    Last edited by Stay; 06-13-2011 at 09:17 AM.

  5. #5
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiar View Post
    I've seen this pop up time and time again on these forums.

    There is this strange, widely-believed myth that a player geared with Raid (GSB-RoS) items has an advantage over a player with R5-R6 gear.

    I have found this to be definitively not true. No matter of the weapons (relic) or slight dex/crit/ap bonus from Raid Gear, the 30%+ damage mitigation from full valor has always proven to be a far more massive advantage in PvP combat.

    At least it has for me.

    It's been a little pet peeve of mine for a while, seeing this fallacy consistently brought up in all sorts of PvP threads. It's time for it to stop. Seriously. Stop. It's not even funny anymore. It's just wrong. People without Valor are squishy as all hell (read: free favor). A little extra damage is pitiful compared to how squishy they are.



    Signed,

    Bored at work (I hate Mondays!)

    And you do know that with the new valor changes players will get 50% of r6 valor for free while cutting down valor from items by 50% ie free valor +r6 equipped == current r6 valor amount?
    And then new raid gear which stats are soooo much better are added giving raid equipped players more or less 50% more damage output of r6 players .

    And now put both these points together, maybe now you understand the concerns a bit better
    Last edited by Balduran; 06-13-2011 at 09:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balduran View Post
    And you do know that with the new valor changes players will get 50% of r6 valor for free?
    And then new raid gear which stats are soooo much better are added giving raid equipped players more or less 50% more damage output of r6 players .

    And now put both these points together, maybe now you understand the concerns a bit better
    Oh, I'm not even talking about 1.3. That's a ******ed patch, that I hope is rescinded.

    This is dedicated to the daily whines about PvE players beating valor-geared players practically since day 1. Dueling several raid-geared players last night (combined with boredom today) finally gave me the impetus to post on it.

    Anyways.

    It's not really about winning fights. It's about having stuff. This is an MMO. Someone having "better" stuff than you is a *really big deal* and deserves a river of forum tears. Regardless of whether or not they actually put that stuff to use to beat you or not.

    To repeat: MMO. Having the "best" stuff is not a means to an end, it *is* the end for 90% of the players. So what if in practice I actually beat PvE-geared people most of the time? THEY HAVE BETTER STUFF THAN ME. THIS CANNOT STAND.

    I mean, ask people what they are going to use their uber-leet stuff for once they get it. This will confuse them; they won't understand what you are talking about. They aren't getting uber-leet stuff to *use* it for anything. Let alone to win stupid PvP matches. They are getting the best stuff to have the best stuff. That is the point of the game for them. And if other people have better stuff than they do, well the devs better do something about it.

    There. That. Amazing logic.

    That sums it up nicely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stay View Post
    It's not really about winning fights. It's about having stuff. This is an MMO. Someone having "better" stuff than you is a *really big deal* and deserves a river of forum tears. Regardless of whether or not they actually put that stuff to use to beat you or not.

    To repeat: MMO. Having the "best" stuff is not a means to an end, it *is* the end for 90% of the players. So what if in practice I actually beat PvE-geared people most of the time? THEY HAVE BETTER STUFF THAN ME. THIS CANNOT STAND.

    I mean, ask people what they are going to use their uber-leet stuff for once they get it. This will confuse them; they won't understand what you are talking about. They aren't getting uber-leet stuff to *use* it for anything. Let alone to win stupid PvP matches. They are getting the best stuff to have the best stuff. That is the point of the game for them. And if other people have better stuff than they do, well the devs better do something about it.
    I like you Stay. I like you a lot.

  8. #8
    dmv
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiar View Post
    I've seen this pop up time and time again on these forums.

    There is this strange, widely-believed myth that a player geared with Raid (GSB-RoS) items has an advantage over a player with R5-R6 gear.

    I have found this to be definitively not true. No matter of the weapons (relic) or slight dex/crit/ap bonus from Raid Gear, the 30%+ damage mitigation from full valor has always proven to be a far more massive advantage in PvP combat.

    At least it has for me.

    It's been a little pet peeve of mine for a while, seeing this fallacy consistently brought up in all sorts of PvP threads. It's time for it to stop. Seriously. Stop. It's not even funny anymore. It's just wrong. People without Valor are squishy as all hell (read: free favor). A little extra damage is pitiful compared to how squishy they are.



    Signed,

    Bored at work (I hate Mondays!)
    So wrong that I'm not even going to validate it with counterexamples.
    Retired due to lack of PVP content and boring/repetitive game mechanics.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Satiar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmv View Post
    So wrong that I'm not even going to validate it with counterexamples.
    Makes you very easy to dismiss.
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  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    I'm a BiS for the most part Mage with ZERO PvP gear. While the valor is nice you don't auto win because of it. While r5-6 gives you the mitigation the PvE gear gives alot more dmg imo but everyone should be able to agree that regardless of gear it really just boils down to playskill. Here's some SS of this lowly little PvE geared mage vs r5-6 geared players:

    http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3...0502001242.jpg
    http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4...0501175024.jpg
    http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/9...0427022638.jpg

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiar View Post
    I've seen this pop up time and time again on these forums.

    There is this strange, widely-believed myth that a player geared with Raid (GSB-RoS) items has an advantage over a player with R5-R6 gear.

    I have found this to be definitively not true. No matter of the weapons (relic) or slight dex/crit/ap bonus from Raid Gear, the 30%+ damage mitigation from full valor has always proven to be a far more massive advantage in PvP combat.
    even not touching 1.3 proposed changes - where's the valor on p6 weapons?
    so, why somebody should prefer one of those against a raid relic wich has _MASSIVELY_ better stats?
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  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmv View Post
    So wrong that I'm not even going to validate it with counterexamples.
    To be fair he would actually have to demonstrate some facts or propose an argument with some substance to refute. Right now it's just what he FEELS is the truth.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Seen raid weapons with across the board superior stats to anything you can get from the PvP vendor, and PvP weapons have no +hit so you may have to swap out your Rank 6 gun for a piece T1 or T2 crap in raids.

    Hey Trion at least put +hit on the PvP weapons and also give us some PvE weapons we can buy with plaques.

  14. #14
    Sword of Telara
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    Seems PvP weapons would do more damage against players. Shouldn't it be balanced that way?

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser
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    pure raid gear vs R5/6 gear the PvP gear wins.

    R5/6 gear with a relic weapon wins over a R5/6 geared PvPer.

    A raid geared player can get R5/6 gear more readily than a PvP player can gain raid gear.

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