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Thread: Putting the myth to rest: PvP Gear vs Raid Gear

  1. #16
    Ascendant Satiar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruizo View Post
    even not touching 1.3 proposed changes - where's the valor on p6 weapons?
    so, why somebody should prefer one of those against a raid relic wich has _MASSIVELY_ better stats?
    I'm talking about the overall (not 1.3)

    Of course a Relic Weapon > PvP Weapon. But that doesn't make up for the sheer damage mitigation that R5-R6 gear provides.

    Another thing about stats: They don't currently matter so much. The difference between full PvP gear and full Raid gear is what? At this point in the game, stats haven't scaled high enough for that to be a real factor.

    To be fair he would actually have to demonstrate some facts or propose an argument with some substance to refute. Right now it's just what he FEELS is the truth.
    This is what I feel. It's certainly a matter of opinion whether having a miniscule amount of extra stats and 6-7 extra weapon DPS is better than 30%+ damage mitigation. But the fact that no one I have yet encountered with raid gear has lasted more than 15 seconds (or gotten me below 80% health) is all the proof I personally need to say that there is no advantage to being raid-geared over PvP geared.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiar View Post
    I've seen this pop up time and time again on these forums.

    There is this strange, widely-believed myth that a player geared with Raid (GSB-RoS) items has an advantage over a player with R5-R6 gear.

    I have found this to be definitively not true. No matter of the weapons (relic) or slight dex/crit/ap bonus from Raid Gear, the 30%+ damage mitigation from full valor has always proven to be a far more massive advantage in PvP combat.

    At least it has for me.

    It's been a little pet peeve of mine for a while, seeing this fallacy consistently brought up in all sorts of PvP threads. It's time for it to stop. Seriously. Stop. It's not even funny anymore. It's just wrong. People without Valor are squishy as all hell (read: free favor). A little extra damage is pitiful compared to how squishy they are.



    Signed,

    Bored at work (I hate Mondays!)

    You are missing the point. Other than relic weapons, no one is saying that raid gear is currently better than pvp gear.

    What we are all saying is that once Hammerfall is released, the next gen raid gear combined with the free 20% valour everyone gets at 50 Will seriously outgear anything pvp can offer.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heebs View Post
    pure raid gear vs R5/6 gear the PvP gear wins.

    R5/6 gear with a relic weapon wins over a R5/6 geared PvPer.

    A raid geared player can get R5/6 gear more readily than a PvP player can gain raid gear.
    Really...I can lose every WF and still get all the PVP gear I will ever want.

    Too bad you cannot fail every raid and still get geared.


    The end.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    You are missing the point. Other than relic weapons, no one is saying that raid gear is currently better than pvp gear.

    What we are all saying is that once Hammerfall is released, the next gen raid gear combined with the free 20% valour everyone gets at 50 Will seriously outgear anything pvp can offer.
    That's obvious. I'm not an idiot (I even but a disclaimer regarding 1.3).

    This is regarding the endless whining from people about how useless their R6 gear *currently* is vs Raid gear. Glad to see we agree

    Really...I can lose every WF and still get all the PVP gear I will ever want.

    Too bad you cannot fail every raid and still get geared.


    The end.
    Eventually. I doubt you realize how much time that will take you.
    Last edited by Satiar; 06-14-2011 at 09:21 AM.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notnice View Post
    Really...I can lose every WF and still get all the PVP gear I will ever want.

    Too bad you cannot fail every raid and still get geared.


    The end.
    Sure, if you want to literally spend 100s of hours in the process.

    Or, I could pay plat and get carried through a pve raid putting in the same amount of no effort in faaar less time.

    Face it, this isn't a legit argument against having the best gear for pvp come from pvp.
    Last edited by Snyrf; 06-14-2011 at 09:24 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiar View Post
    That's obvious. I'm not an idiot (I even but a disclaimer regarding 1.3).

    This is regarding the endless whining from people about how useless their R6 gear *currently* is vs Raid gear. Glad to see we agree
    However, there are no relic equivalent weapons obtainable from pvp and I would argue that there should be.

    I also would agree that the upcoming codex trinket nerf is a poor decision.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    However, there are no relic equivalent weapons obtainable from pvp and I would argue that there should be.

    I also would agree that the upcoming codex trinket nerf is a poor decision.
    That was my point.

    Even a Raid-geared person with a Relic weapon is at a disadvantage vs an R6 PvPer with full Valor gear. The best thing I can think of is simply not allowing Relic weapons to be equipped in PvP. I honestly don't think that they should be attainable via Favor. If they were to put them in the game, they would have to be based off somethign other than rank and favor.


    The Codex Trinket nerf is really annoying though. I guess it's back to Mastertools for me. How badly is it being nerfed, btw?
    Last edited by Satiar; 06-14-2011 at 09:34 AM.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiar View Post
    That was my point.



    The Codex Trinket nerf is really annoying though. I guess it's back to Mastertools for me. How badly is it being nerfed, btw?
    Hearing down from 250 ap to 150. Not sure about stats on it.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notnice View Post
    Really...I can lose every WF and still get all the PVP gear I will ever want.

    Too bad you cannot fail every raid and still get geared.


    The end.
    I can pay gold to get a spot on a top PvE guild farming run and afk/auto-follow my way to a relic weapon in 5 runs or less. And that's harder than having to spend 100s of hours to get a R6 weapon?
    Last edited by Rottweiler-STi; 06-14-2011 at 10:15 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toothsome View Post
    i think your missing the point, wat your saying does make sense.

    but when somone is in full P6 with relic weapons, they have a higher dps output then someone with P6 weapons, which is just wrong...


    because the people that have alot, and i mean alot of time in their hands to get both the best pve and pvp gear, have an edge over someone just focusing 1 way.


    which i don't see a big deal, relic weaps are suppose 2 be the best, but thats what people are talking about..

    and so im clearing it up for you, sadly ill never see a relic weapon in my hand
    ITT: R6 People that choose not to clear raids think it is unfair that there are R6 players that do choose to clear raids. That they are R6 also does not matter, it is clearly unfair they cleared raids.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShalarLight View Post
    ITT: R6 People that choose not to clear raids think it is unfair that there are R6 players that do choose to clear raids. That they are R6 also does not matter, it is clearly unfair they cleared raids.
    Actually - I think you missed the point. The Raid weapons shouldn't be superior in PvP is the point. They are superior in PvE, where they belong - but why should that bleed over into PvP as well? That basically forces people to clear content they don't enjoy just because the content they do enjoy doesn't reward them with gear appropriate to the content.

    It can go the other way as well - it could just as easily be someone who did nothing but PvP and has PvP gear outparsing someone in a PvE encounter who has raid gear and weapons. That isn't right either.

  12. #27
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    Doesn't matter the opinion... whatever Satiar says is right!

    Deal with it!
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  13. #28
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    XERIIIIIISE!

    Vent info!

    ....please?
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  14. #29
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    The solution for weapons is to give tehm a player vs player buff. So that if you have a relic weapon, it does 15 % damage or something extra to players. But the base stats are still well below PvE relic weapons. Thus fixing the problem.
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  15. #30
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    Satiar
    XERIIIIIISE!

    Vent info!

    ....please?
    ofcourse... we actual use mumble now.... I still got your mumble info...

    i will drop by tonight.
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