+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: PvP Keeps. How and Why?

  1. #1
    Rift Master Catalysts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    603

    Default PvP Keeps. How and Why?

    What is the purpose to fight over the keep? What will keep people from just ignoring it all together?

    A new zone would have to be added, there is available space on the map for this. You have to WALK/RIDE into the zone unless your side controls the keep, it holds the only portal into the zone. Inside the keep are daily NPCs that offer Rep + Daily quests to grind for Rep/cash respectively.

    For all our crafter buddies out there, we can add a specialised Master Craftsman inside, that can offer dailies for skill capped Tskillers that will offer a better chance of plaque rewards for handing in the quest. Put all the tradeskill benches/trainers/vendors inside as well.

    The zone should have a good amount of high end resources, including the rarest top end resources to be able to be farmed by the controller. Others could obviously go in there to farm resources, but at the risk of running into the keeps controlling faction.

    Taking the keep should grant a large bonus, basically a multiplier + small bonus based on the amount of favor earned while taking the keep (killing players near the keep). Keep should be takable by a well prepared and geared 5 man, if the controllers don't defend, that's their problem. Reaching the keep lord (DAoC style) should however take a good 15 minutes and provide warnings to the controlling faction so they may mount a defense (encourages actual PvP and not just off hour keep swapping).

    Lastly holding the keep should grant a server wide bonus of +5-10% xp and favor gains for the controlling faction, further encouraging people to take advantage of the keep and hold it for their side. Keep may be claimed by a guild. Trion could offer a gold sink option as well to upgrade the keep, and even (DAoC again) allow the controlling side to recruit/upgrade guards for the keep and patrols for the zone. This will help the economy long term so plat dosen't just continue to pile up and prices go through the roof.

    Just some opening options and thoughts. Please contribute some of your own, and offer some opinions and thoughts on the matter in a constructive manner.

    Cheers.

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    800

    Default

    Anyone ever notice in most MMO's there's nothing worth keeping in the "Keep"

  3. #3
    General of Telara Sarathor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Imagination Land
    Posts
    948

    Default

    I actually like this idea. Perhaps make the gathering nodes very difficult for the opposing faction, to make gatherers more interested in being in the faction who controls the keep.

    The upgrading the keep mechanic seems interesting. I'm not really sure if I would bother doing it, but I can see some people putting in their money so they have a better time holding the keep.

    Another suggestion would be a little box in the UI where it shows the number of opposing faction members currently in the zone. This box will only show if you're on the faction which controls the zone. I think this may help boost some kind of world PvP, since people will know if they should bother looking for players or not.


    On a side note: When I played Runes of Magic (before I realized it was a real money wins the game kind of game) I joined a guild that had it's own instanced Keep. What was very cool about this the guild castle is that during a certain time every day you could sign up your guild to compete in a guild vs guild style PvP game where the opposing side tries to capture your keep. I loved that about Runes of Money, even though I got one shot by opposing guild member all the time, it was still very fun. Even low levels could help by collecting shard stones and merits to help build up your defenses.
    Last edited by Sarathor; 06-12-2011 at 08:12 PM.

    Sarathor@Byriel Rank 7 Defiant Mage - retired
    Bonqueequee@Byriel Rank 1 Guardian Rogue

  4. #4
    Rift Master Catalysts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymath View Post
    Anyone ever notice in most MMO's there's nothing worth keeping in the "Keep"
    So how about offering up some idea's. What I listed seemed like great reasons to hold onto that keep. What more do you need to keep in it?

    Shall we fill it with a pile of food and tools, soldiers and weapons, armor and smiths, and treat it as a real world keep, which was basicaly nothing more than a fortified structure to maintain the kings/lords influence in the area? After all, that's what a keep was for in the first place. Not really a place to keep some shiney sparkly wonders of greatness, but just a military outpost to maintain control over a strategic or outlying region.

    So back to the topic at hand. What would get you fighting over that chunk of land? What would be motivation enough for you to have some good fun world PvP.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Catalysts; 06-12-2011 at 08:10 PM.

  5. #5
    Sword of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    800

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Catalysts View Post
    So how about offering up some idea's. What I listed seemed like great reasons to hold onto that keep. What more do you need to keep in it?

    Shall we fill it with a pile of food and tools, soldiers and weapons, armor and smiths, and treat it as a real world keep, which was basicaly nothing more than a fortified structure to maintain the kings/lords influence in the area? After all, that's what a keep was for in the first place. Not really a place to keep some shiney sparkly wonders of greatness, but just a military outpost to maintain control over a strategic or outlying region.

    So back to the topic at hand. What would get you fighting over that chunk of land? What would be motivation enough for you to have some good fun world PvP.

    Cheers.
    How about secrets? Best thing for a keep is a secret.
    Last edited by Raymath; 06-12-2011 at 08:14 PM.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Boltswiki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    454

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Catalysts View Post
    So how about offering up some idea's. What I listed seemed like great reasons to hold onto that keep. What more do you need to keep in it?

    Shall we fill it with a pile of food and tools, soldiers and weapons, armor and smiths, and treat it as a real world keep, which was basicaly nothing more than a fortified structure to maintain the kings/lords influence in the area? After all, that's what a keep was for in the first place. Not really a place to keep some shiney sparkly wonders of greatness, but just a military outpost to maintain control over a strategic or outlying region.

    So back to the topic at hand. What would get you fighting over that chunk of land? What would be motivation enough for you to have some good fun world PvP.

    Cheers.
    Fields full of Twilight Bloom and Sagebrush. Yay consumables!
    Pedia < Chronicle > @ Laethys US
    DPS Warrior Gear Spreadsheet - http://tinyurl.com/43qqmar

  7. #7
    Rift Master Catalysts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarathor View Post
    I actually like this idea. Perhaps make the gathering nodes very difficult for the opposing faction, to make gatherers more interested in being in the faction who controls the keep.

    The upgrading the keep mechanic seems interesting. I'm not really sure if I would bother doing it, but I can see some people putting in their money so they have a better time holding the keep.

    Another suggestion would be a little box in the UI where it shows the number of opposing faction members currently in the zone. This box will only show if you're on the faction which controls the zone. I think this may help boost some kind of world PvP, since people will know if they should bother looking for players or not.
    The point of the upgrades would lend to your first comment, upgrading patrols would make them a threat to solo players, trying to run around and farm the nodes. Stronger guards, tougher patrols, and sturdier doors should be well worth the investment, if they are still easily soloable and paper thin, then the upgrades would be a bit pointless and noone would take advantage of the system, so the upgrades would have to be enough of a benefit to outweight the cost.

    The upgrades could always be made to be quest related, but I like the idea of a money sink, as it is now, I have shedloads of plat and nothing to buy. I have no interest in collecting all the silly mounts for some achievement. This would give me, and I'm sure a fair few others, a way to spend that money and make it worth something again, assuming the upgrade system were well implemented.

    I like the idea of the counter for hostiles in the zone, but feel it would need to be regulated a bit, like say if someone runs into a patrol, or comes in range of scouts/spotters in the field (potentially an upgraded unit put into the field, stealthed, non-agro, roamers, on a long respawn) to keep track of enemy movements in the area.

    Cheers.

  8. #8
    Rift Master Catalysts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    603

    Default

    So all those people who claim to want keep sieges and so forth in PvP have no input on the idea, nothing to add or nothing that they believe would make a strong arguement to implement the idea or to encourage it to be used by the open world PvP types?

    Last bump I'll throw on here if it recieves no further worthwhile feedback.

    Cheers.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara NatashaK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,146

    Default

    I'd use the existing zones.
    Tie them to the instances of the zone.
    Have them flip to NPCs based on invasions.

    I'm wary of any "rich get richer" mechanic as it can create lopsided factions.

  10. #10
    Banned Bunzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Catalysts View Post
    What is the purpose to fight over the keep? What will keep people from just ignoring it all together?

    A new zone would have to be added, there is available space on the map for this. You have to WALK/RIDE into the zone unless your side controls the keep, it holds the only portal into the zone. Inside the keep are daily NPCs that offer Rep + Daily quests to grind for Rep/cash respectively.

    For all our crafter buddies out there, we can add a specialised Master Craftsman inside, that can offer dailies for skill capped Tskillers that will offer a better chance of plaque rewards for handing in the quest. Put all the tradeskill benches/trainers/vendors inside as well.

    The zone should have a good amount of high end resources, including the rarest top end resources to be able to be farmed by the controller. Others could obviously go in there to farm resources, but at the risk of running into the keeps controlling faction.

    Taking the keep should grant a large bonus, basically a multiplier + small bonus based on the amount of favor earned while taking the keep (killing players near the keep). Keep should be takable by a well prepared and geared 5 man, if the controllers don't defend, that's their problem. Reaching the keep lord (DAoC style) should however take a good 15 minutes and provide warnings to the controlling faction so they may mount a defense (encourages actual PvP and not just off hour keep swapping).

    Lastly holding the keep should grant a server wide bonus of +5-10% xp and favor gains for the controlling faction, further encouraging people to take advantage of the keep and hold it for their side. Keep may be claimed by a guild. Trion could offer a gold sink option as well to upgrade the keep, and even (DAoC again) allow the controlling side to recruit/upgrade guards for the keep and patrols for the zone. This will help the economy long term so plat dosen't just continue to pile up and prices go through the roof.

    Just some opening options and thoughts. Please contribute some of your own, and offer some opinions and thoughts on the matter in a constructive manner.

    Cheers.
    Defiants outnumber guardians by ALOT. Defiants would always have the keep.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Keeps.... good idea, but if Trion implement keep do you ever think of:

    1. Follow by huge cry on aoe, let say 10 storm callers aoing choke point on cluster of stupid people - profit!
    2. Server stability, although I'd say Trion doing good job so far on this.
    3. Incentive about defending and attacking, exp won't cut it.
    4. Mechanic that not encourage alarm clock or pvp avoidance.
    5. As mentioned before, population imbalance and what factor to balance it.

    This issue is common on mmo, is Trion ever learn from it? I'd say from too many CC across soul and DR changes(also 1.3 on pts), the answer is no.
    they're ****ed up big time and didn't learn from other games.
    Last edited by ShibaInu; 06-13-2011 at 06:22 PM.

  12. #12
    Rift Master Catalysts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NatashaK View Post
    I'd use the existing zones.
    Tie them to the instances of the zone.
    Have them flip to NPCs based on invasions.

    I'm wary of any "rich get richer" mechanic as it can create lopsided factions.
    I'm not sure how having acces to more trade skill mats, and some extra daily quests would mean "rich get richer". I mean lets face it, crafting is a bit of a...well waste on anything besides runes and pots, as you replace the vast majority of the crafted gear by rank 2+, and well before you ever get into a proper raid, the odd consumable for insoles an such don't require the top end resources by any means. So I'm afraid I don't follow you.

    I understand the issue with lopsided servers, but well the issue will be there regardless in any keep based PvP. Any suggestions on how to set it up on a more level field so it isn't just a lopsided steamroll that sits and collects dust on imbalanced population servers?

    Would you be more clear as to what you mean by "Have them flip to NPCs based on invasions"? I'm bringing this up from a PvP standpoint, guards and patrols and whatnot will be faction based, outside of that I don't get what you mean by NPC based.

    Cheers.

  13. #13
    Rift Master Catalysts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunzy View Post
    Defiants outnumber guardians by ALOT. Defiants would always have the keep.
    Your server is not all servers. Numbers only count if everyone is showing up to the party anyway.

    If you feel like being constructive and offering some input into how it could be implemented in a balanced fashion please do so, otherwise there was little point to your post other than to get a +1.

    Put some thought into the replies people. It is a zone, with a keep in the center, how can the zone be designed to promote balanced and engaging world PvP. Give some idea's if you have any on how to help with balancing uneven server pops.

    If people actually want to see something like this implemented Trion is going to need to see some input on the players part, with much better input than 1 liners about how something might not work. Give some idea's of how to MAKE it work. Let the Dev's know you are actively interested in the concept, and give them some idea's as to what you really want done with it.

    Cheers.

  14. #14
    Rift Master Catalysts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ShibaInu View Post
    Keeps.... good idea, but if Trion implement keep do you ever think of:

    1. Follow by huge cry on aoe, let say 10 storm callers aoing choke point on cluster of stupid people - profit!
    2. Server stability, although I'd say Trion doing good job so far on this.
    3. Incentive about defending and attacking, exp won't cut it.
    4. Mechanic that not encourage alarm clock or pvp avoidance.
    5. As mentioned before, population imbalance and what factor to balance it.

    This issue is common on mmo, is Trion ever learn from it? I'd say from too many CC across soul and DR changes(also 1.3 on pts), the answer is no.
    they're ****ed up big time and didn't learn from other games.
    1. Their fault for being stupid and standing there. If the stormcallers are in range to AoE they are in range and LoS to be attacked back.
    2. The may need to do a bit of tweaking with the servers at launch of the zone, but it would be worth it if it promoted some serious open world PvP with real rewards backing it to get more people involved.
    3. Favor boost as well as XP for your entire server, access to more daily's and better dailys to gring for the rep people want, potentially including rep for the various WF factions. What more do you need?
    4. How was anything stated as a mean to AVOID PvP? What do you mean by alarm clock?
    5. Got some idea's? Share them.

    Don't point out how something wont work because something else dosen't work somewhere else, or assume that it can't be implemented because you can "work" the system. It would take a lot of forethought and planning to implement something like this and have it done right. So far all you have done is offer reasons why it might fail without actually contributing anything constructive whatsoever.

    If you have a reason as to why something WONT work, bring an idea to the table that may be a means of how to MAKE it work.

    If you want something that could be a fun and engaging outdoor massive PvP environment with skirmishes ranging from small 1-1 encounters and running the full gambit up through guild vs guild confrontations then put in some effort and try to make it work, stop being a defeatists, and start working toward a solution.

    Cheers.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default

    I am VERY much for the whole keep idea. Personally I prefer the guild vs guild aspect of keep fighting and not the faction vs faction. I don't think however this will be able to be done in this game. The only viable thing is the Faction vs Faction can be done. The principle of the keeps is not only prestige but bonuses. No the whole every three hour ******** like what was done in WoW is not viable! It turn the fight into crap that can easly be over turned in a few hours so people become disinterested with it. you need a once a week fight. Why? Because it gives it time to stew in people they aren't getting benefits. It also makes it a rarity and therefor something that the whole server should fight for emphatically. Now in the game Lineage all the keeps were guild based and if you won the guild not only did you get perks with exp and such you could set the vendor tax rate and be able to compete for even higher keeps and/or events. Will this create the "Super" guild? Maybe but most wanna fight for their own and have it for themselves. Now to make it interesting there should be 1 large keep that is faction based. The factions fight to be able to control that one keep. After your faction wins you can place smaller keeps in the zones nad have the guilds fight it out to control those and control that zone economy.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts