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Thread: Say a prayer for Champ/vk/para warriors.

  1. #1
    Champion Auden's Avatar
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    Default Say a prayer for Champ/vk/para warriors.

    So far on the PTR

    Strike like Iron - 38 points in a tree we only spec max 20 in.
    This ability increases our damage by 48%. And before you cry about that,
    it is always up and makes up for how little our abilities hit otherwise.

    This is pretty huge nerf to 2h warriors pve and pvp.

    Also, there is a rumor of VK offensive abilities getting nerfed (ravenous str).


    So, say a prayer to us pugging champions who are forced to endure world of magecraft a.k.a. Rift.


    Edit: So far we are still squishy as well. Granted this is early PTR build, just hope they have something good for us on the horizon.
    Last edited by Auden; 06-10-2011 at 12:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Insubstantial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auden View Post
    So far on the PTR

    Strike like Iron - 38 points in a tree we only spec max 20 in.
    This ability increases our damage by 48%. And before you cry about that,
    it is always up and makes up for how little our abilities hit otherwise.

    This is pretty huge nerf to 2h warriors pve and pvp.

    Also, there is a rumor of VK offensive abilities getting nerfed (ravenous str).


    So, say a prayer to us pugging champions who are forced to endure world of magecraft a.k.a. Rift.


    Edit: So far we are still squishy as well. Granted this is early PTR build, just hope they have something good for us on the horizon.
    So... lets see if ive got this right.

    Youre upset because theyre moving an immensely powerful Paragon skill higher in the tree to avoid having people get it as an afterthought to compliment a different soul?

    I see no problem with this. If you want the skill, its there to take, you just have to commit to being a Paragon to get it.

    Cry more?
    Jharyn - Cleric - Druishamsticar! / Inquisicabanel!
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  3. #3
    Champion of Telara Fiasco3's Avatar
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    wonder if dual wielding will come out on top after. I doubt it, but if it does, rogues are gonna be mad! Warriors be taking their leather and their relics haha.

  4. #4
    Rift Master Click's Avatar
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    You can still have a good Champion / Paragon spec even if they moved SLI up so far up on the skill tree. You don't need SLI to do well as a Champion / Paragon. In fact, some people don't even use SLI and would rather spend those 3 swords on other finishers.

    The real problem is Lingering Wounds being uncleansable and unpurgable, along with the fact it only takes 17 points to acquire. Until Trion fixes LW, Champion / anything will still be the preferred spec of most DPS Warriors, due to how overpowered LW is in group PvP.
    Last edited by Click; 06-10-2011 at 01:05 PM.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Stigas's Avatar
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    This is what happens when a forum full of Warriors cry about having to spec into an awesome 3rd tree. Everyone seemed to ignore the fact that you got LOTS of great things from the tree, and just focused on the fact that it was a clunky mechanic.

    Every Class has a terribly clunky mechanic or two. Too bad you all couldn't have just lived with it and enjoyed a very nice bonus.

    Regardless, I hope they do some things to Champ to offset this loss. I love my Warrior friends. They take the brunt of the punishment in WF's while I get to relax a little, and they make Rogues think twice before jumping me. I really, really hope you guys come out on the positive side of this.

    All the best!
    Stigas - 50 Defiant Mage - Rank 5
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  6. #6
    Champion Auden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Click View Post
    You can still have a good Champion / Paragon spec even if they moved SLI up so far up on the skill tree. You don't need SLI to do well as a Champion / Paragon. In fact, some people don't even use SLI and would rather spend those 3 swords on other finishers.

    The real problem is Lingering Wounds being uncleansable and unpurgable, along with the fact it only takes 17 points to acquire. Until Trion fixes LW, Champion / anything will still be the preferred spec of most DPS Warriors, due to how overpowered LW is in group PvP.
    At the moment no you cant.

    PvE wise our only viable pve spec is crippled. In PVP they took out one of our range attacks (path of wind) and made it duel wield only. This is another huge blow to champs.

    Problem is the PVP tree sucks. It sucks real bad.

    Also, you really going to use a finisher when your target is @ 70% over sli? Sorry, maybe bad warriors do.

    Also lingering wounds is one of the only abilities to keep healers in check. Even that is a half assed cure for the OP that is healing. Fix healing, then adjust LW.


    You underestimate how little damage our abilities hit without SLI. You are also not taking into account how many DEFENSIVE cooldowns everyother class has to mitigate physical damage. So that 48% RW if it doesnt crit maybe hits for 500 against valor targets. ( that is on the high end)


    Without any major changes to our existing 2handed oriented trees, warriors are in a very very sad shape.

    Right now the benefits for paragon

    Path of Wind - gone for 2h in 1.3
    SLI - gone for 2h in 1.3 (too many dw talents to make it worth getting)
    Fleet of Foot - probably gone since there is nothing other than RW worth getting in paragon tree (16)
    Random get more crit after blah blah - again gone, since there would be no reason to spec para.

  7. #7
    Champion Auden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigas View Post
    This is what happens when a forum full of Warriors cry about having to spec into an awesome 3rd tree. Everyone seemed to ignore the fact that you got LOTS of great things from the tree, and just focused on the fact that it was a clunky mechanic.

    Every Class has a terribly clunky mechanic or two. Too bad you all couldn't have just lived with it and enjoyed a very nice bonus.

    Regardless, I hope they do some things to Champ to offset this loss. I love my Warrior friends. They take the brunt of the punishment in WF's while I get to relax a little, and they make Rogues think twice before jumping me. I really, really hope you guys come out on the positive side of this.

    All the best!

    Very nice bonus does not equal a bonus that you have to have to do any reasonable damage.

    This ability was a requirement and a "clunky" one at that. But it was mandatory. But lucky there were enough abilities in paragon that made it attractive for 2handers.

    What they need to do is re-vamp the Vindicator Tree, like a major revamp. The tree is just more tank crap which has almost zero synergy with 2h warrior pvp.

  8. #8
    Champion Auden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insubstantial View Post
    So... lets see if ive got this right.

    Youre upset because theyre moving an immensely powerful Paragon skill higher in the tree to avoid having people get it as an afterthought to compliment a different soul?

    I see no problem with this. If you want the skill, its there to take, you just have to commit to being a Paragon to get it.

    Cry more?
    cleric, nuff said.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Stigas's Avatar
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    They aren't going to leave you guys at a 48% personal DPS deficit when you guys weren't doing that much more DPS, even on Plutonus, than other classes.

    Even the pessimistic side of me thinks there's something else in the works.


    To that regard, I hope they hurry this up. I have no idea how they plan on getting all of this in a relatively bug-free release when the patch (and release of Hammerknell) is 12 days away.
    Stigas - 50 Defiant Mage - Rank 5
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  10. #10
    Ascendant Stigas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auden View Post
    Very nice bonus does not equal a bonus that you have to have to do any reasonable damage.

    This ability was a requirement and a "clunky" one at that. But it was mandatory. But lucky there were enough abilities in paragon that made it attractive for 2handers.

    What they need to do is re-vamp the Vindicator Tree, like a major revamp. The tree is just more tank crap which has almost zero synergy with 2h warrior pvp.
    I'll do it backwards, and say I absolutely 100% agree that Vindicator needs to be looked at. There's no reason that only 2 out of the 4 PvP souls are desired.

    To your first point, though, I'm going to have to disagree. As a Chloro, our ONLY healing soul, I -had- to spec 31 points into Warlock to get a 20% bonus and a purge-able survival CD. That means I'm left putting no more than 19 points into my healing soul if I want the Archmage goodies. You'll get no pity from me.

    I'm sure the Rogues would love to have a word with you since they -have- to put 16 points into Assassin for all the tasty crit treats there. Alternatively, they can choose to put 32 points into Nightblade to get a healing debuff that's available to you at 17. They're a physical class too, just to follow your point about physical mitigation.

    You do, however, have my highest hopes as I said previously that they tweak some of your Champion abilities to compensate. While I hate R6 Warriors that pound my face in, I love having them on my side. I seriously think that putting it 38 points deep makes for an obvious incoming buff that they didn't want to give you guys with SLI so readily accessible.
    Last edited by Stigas; 06-10-2011 at 02:22 PM.
    Stigas - 50 Defiant Mage - Rank 5
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigas View Post
    They aren't going to leave you guys at a 48% personal DPS deficit when you guys weren't doing that much more DPS, even on Plutonus, than other classes.

    Even the pessimistic side of me thinks there's something else in the works.


    To that regard, I hope they hurry this up. I have no idea how they plan on getting all of this in a relatively bug-free release when the patch (and release of Hammerknell) is 12 days away.
    stormcaller's are getting a hefty nerf, and were a little behind anyway. 1.3 seems only rogue will still be parsing as high.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Lonertee's Avatar
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    I'm a paragon and i LOVE the changes

  13. #13
    Champion Auden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigas View Post
    I'll do it backwards, and say I absolutely 100% agree that Vindicator needs to be looked at. There's no reason that only 2 out of the 4 PvP souls are desired.

    To your first point, though, I'm going to have to disagree. As a Chloro, our ONLY healing soul, I -had- to spec 31 points into Warlock to get a 20% bonus and a purge-able survival CD. That means I'm left putting no more than 19 points into my healing soul if I want the Archmage goodies. You'll get no pity from me.

    I'm sure the Rogues would love to have a word with you since they -have- to put 16 points into Assassin for all the tasty crit treats there. Alternatively, they can choose to put 32 points into Nightblade to get a healing debuff that's available to you at 17. They're a physical class too, just to follow your point about physical mitigation.

    You do, however, have my highest hopes as I said previously that they tweak some of your Champion abilities to compensate. While I hate R6 Warriors that pound my face in, I love having them on my side. I seriously think that putting it 38 points deep makes for an obvious incoming buff that they didn't want to give you guys with SLI so readily accessible.
    I agree that there has to be something in the works for champs.

    It is unfortunate that the 4 DPS trees of the warrior goes like this

    2h dps
    No-scale dps
    DW dps
    Pet dps

    And all of them are held together by SLI.

    PvP or not you understand how big this change is. So i am not sure what we are arguing about.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple
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    Hopefully a new DPS spec emerges from this because I hate pets.
    Whitedevil/Harrow

  15. #15
    Ascendant Stigas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auden View Post
    I agree that there has to be something in the works for champs.

    It is unfortunate that the 4 DPS trees of the warrior goes like this

    2h dps
    No-scale dps
    DW dps
    Pet dps

    And all of them are held together by SLI.

    PvP or not you understand how big this change is. So i am not sure what we are arguing about.
    Wasn't arguing. Found a thread with logical conversation and jumped in!

    stormcaller's are getting a hefty nerf, and were a little behind anyway. 1.3 seems only rogue will still be parsing as high.
    Stormcaller AOE was nerfed. From Leviathan's findings on PTR (unless it changed), we actually received a significant single target buff to Lightning Strike and one of our other ST abilities.

    Hopefully a new DPS spec emerges from this because I hate pets.
    This is good too! Pets are clunky and scale better than the player controlling them. It's sort of silly.
    Last edited by Stigas; 06-10-2011 at 02:36 PM.
    Stigas - 50 Defiant Mage - Rank 5
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