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Thread: Rift PVP

  1. #1
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    Default Rift PVP

    PVP in Rift is terrible. In many ways it is the worst I have ever seen in any game released to date. There is no getting around it, and no matter how much I wanted this game to suceed, it seems to be slowly going down the drain. Alot of this relates to the consumer and our experiences. I have played WoW, Warhammer, FFXI, and etc. etc. This is not intentional but my expecatations for games is a mix of all the good things from my prior game experiences. I want RVR (realm vs. realm) like in Warhammer. I want warfronts. I want arenas. I want good PvP. I want good PVE. Frankly, the company that can deliver all these in one game, and at a moderate level of quality, will be king in my opion. I had hoped Rift would be the one to deliver but this does not seem to be the case.

    I believe Rift PVP fails for the following reasons:

    1) Ranged DPS is way to overpowered. This is important because focus firing one target is very important in PVP. When ranged dps is so over the top it creates a problem because range (30 - 35m) does not have to move or be in melee range to do damage.

    2) Melee classes do not have the surviaviblity or burst to be competitve in PVP. The trade off to having no range is excellent burst dps in melee range and decent surivavility. A melee class has to survive ranged damage to do anything. Trion has managed to flush this idea down the toilet and the reasons escape me.

    3) Clerics are utterly and completely impossible to kill. We had two rogues, two mages, and three warriors beating on one Cleric in a warfront tonight. It was so stupid we all started laughing. Now... Clerics need surviavilty but this must come from others in the group. Like guard from tanks for example.

    4) Classes that heal can do way way to much DPS. This is obvious but for some reason Trion jacked this up as well. I actually made forums posts in Beta warning againist this but of course Trion... well.

    5) In pvp damage mitigation abilites with timers are king. This is in relation to warriors wtih armor for example. An ability that can reduce all damge by 80%, for example, and for a short time, is better then 60% constant mitigation because of the way heals work and spike dps. Spike dps is the only way to kill someone with healers.

    The list never ends. In summary, nerf rogue and mage ranged dps. Nerf all damge from warlocks and clerics. Make it so soul combinations that can heal have little to no dps. Make it so clerics require group assistance to stay alive. Increase melee surviavilty and spike damage. Increase the hit box for melee because right now a toon just has to run to avoid the majority of melee damage. I am not advocating utterly destroying every calling in the game. I am saying tweak them to make the game more competive.

    In the end, I really don't care. Trion will not fix this mess and if they tried the cries from easy mode kids would be huge. I could be wrong but seen this way to many times.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    I havent seen any of the problems you are talking about. I regularly top Damage and KB numbers in both the 11-20 and 20-29 bracket on my Champ/para/vind...

    once i got like 31 KBs and over 50k damage..

    Range can kite in this game, but there is enough CC breaks and charge abilities and stuns to make it much easier to chase. people have issues kiting me.

    I have 50% heal nerf on crit.. a spammable snare.. and a huge i win crit spike... 3 sec stun on a charge... aoe fear.. 2 CC removal tools...

    if anything a decent warrior can basically have his way with the enemy.. add just a few heals and an assist.. and booom..

    remember these games are about balance. if there are too many rogues and mages around the solution is to roll an opposite soul and take advantage of their weakness.. you can specialize more because you only face 1 or 2 types of enemies.

    they will need to kite perfectly if you build properly and lande a melee snare early. 1 misstep and its charge/stun/snare/HUGE CRIT doom.

    LTP

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara Wawer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duuklah View Post
    I havent seen any of the problems you are talking about. I regularly top Damage and KB numbers in both the 11-20 and 20-29 bracket on my Champ/para/vind...

    once i got like 31 KBs and over 50k damage..

    LTP
    You are not even lvl 50....
    so stop using the LTP card because it don't apply.
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  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    Default lvl 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Kok View Post
    You are not even lvl 50....
    so stop using the LTP card because it don't apply.
    What's lvl 50 have to do with anything? Have you missed all the posts with people reaching 50 through PvE and then trying their first PvP\Raid\Instance?

    Besides, they never said it was their only character. Maybe they have 50s sitting around? Who knows.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimsonbro View Post
    What's lvl 50 have to do with anything?
    Absolutely everything. You literally know nothing of "bad PvP" until you step into a WF as a fresh level 50 (bonus points if you are a melee) and get matched up against a rank 6 premade.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser KalToreth's Avatar
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    Nvm. Moooooo


    *killed post as i had an epiphamy and understood that my brain is slowworking today*
    Last edited by KalToreth; 06-10-2011 at 08:43 AM.
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  7. #7
    Plane Touched Almaria SideSwipe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    PVP in Rift is terrible. In many ways it is the worst I have ever seen in any game released to date. There is no getting around it, and no matter how much I wanted this game to suceed, it seems to be slowly going down the drain. Alot of this relates to the consumer and our experiences. I have played WoW, Warhammer, FFXI, and etc. etc. This is not intentional but my expecatations for games is a mix of all the good things from my prior game experiences. I want RVR (realm vs. realm) like in Warhammer. I want warfronts. I want arenas. I want good PvP. I want good PVE. Frankly, the company that can deliver all these in one game, and at a moderate level of quality, will be king in my opion. I had hoped Rift would be the one to deliver but this does not seem to be the case.

    I believe Rift PVP fails for the following reasons:

    1) Ranged DPS is way to overpowered. This is important because focus firing one target is very important in PVP. When ranged dps is so over the top it creates a problem because range (30 - 35m) does not have to move or be in melee range to do damage.

    2) Melee classes do not have the surviaviblity or burst to be competitve in PVP. The trade off to having no range is excellent burst dps in melee range and decent surivavility. A melee class has to survive ranged damage to do anything. Trion has managed to flush this idea down the toilet and the reasons escape me.

    3) Clerics are utterly and completely impossible to kill. We had two rogues, two mages, and three warriors beating on one Cleric in a warfront tonight. It was so stupid we all started laughing. Now... Clerics need surviavilty but this must come from others in the group. Like guard from tanks for example.

    4) Classes that heal can do way way to much DPS. This is obvious but for some reason Trion jacked this up as well. I actually made forums posts in Beta warning againist this but of course Trion... well.

    5) In pvp damage mitigation abilites with timers are king. This is in relation to warriors wtih armor for example. An ability that can reduce all damge by 80%, for example, and for a short time, is better then 60% constant mitigation because of the way heals work and spike dps. Spike dps is the only way to kill someone with healers.

    The list never ends. In summary, nerf rogue and mage ranged dps. Nerf all damge from warlocks and clerics. Make it so soul combinations that can heal have little to no dps. Make it so clerics require group assistance to stay alive. Increase melee surviavilty and spike damage. Increase the hit box for melee because right now a toon just has to run to avoid the majority of melee damage. I am not advocating utterly destroying every calling in the game. I am saying tweak them to make the game more competive.

    In the end, I really don't care. Trion will not fix this mess and if they tried the cries from easy mode kids would be huge. I could be wrong but seen this way to many times.
    1) range DPS can be mitigated with any other threat, mezz, sleep, stun, etc. Once the target has been identified and shut down your assist train should pick this up as a hi-priority target and eliminate it. If you dont people will die from this long range but paper thin RDPS.

    2) It is a healers job to provide survivability to DPS. Survivability should not be built into the class. There function in PvP is to kill and to kill quickly.

    3) I currently see little problems. Buff sheer, debuff, and silence and you have a dead cleric. All of those classes just dps'ing, what a waste when they could have added some utility into the mix. One example is not a case study either.

    4) Every time I sort on healing the best healers have the least DPS so I do not know where you are getting this fact. SS or it didnt happen?

    5) I am confused I thought warriors had no damage mitigation...now they do? Or are you just talking about cool downs in general...because a three minute cool down, oh no!

    Your flat list just destroyed every mechanic in the game :-/

    I guess different strokes for PvP folks.
    Last edited by Almaria SideSwipe; 06-10-2011 at 08:52 AM.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    PVP in Rift is terrible. In many ways it is the worst I have ever seen in any game released to date. There is no getting around it, and no matter how much I wanted this game to suceed, it seems to be slowly going down the drain. Alot of this relates to the consumer and our experiences. I have played WoW, Warhammer, FFXI, and etc. etc. This is not intentional but my expecatations for games is a mix of all the good things from my prior game experiences. I want RVR (realm vs. realm) like in Warhammer. I want warfronts. I want arenas. I want good PvP. I want good PVE. Frankly, the company that can deliver all these in one game, and at a moderate level of quality, will be king in my opion. I had hoped Rift would be the one to deliver but this does not seem to be the case.

    I believe Rift PVP fails for the following reasons:

    1) Ranged DPS is way to overpowered. This is important because focus firing one target is very important in PVP. When ranged dps is so over the top it creates a problem because range (30 - 35m) does not have to move or be in melee range to do damage.

    2) Melee classes do not have the surviaviblity or burst to be competitve in PVP. The trade off to having no range is excellent burst dps in melee range and decent surivavility. A melee class has to survive ranged damage to do anything. Trion has managed to flush this idea down the toilet and the reasons escape me.

    3) Clerics are utterly and completely impossible to kill. We had two rogues, two mages, and three warriors beating on one Cleric in a warfront tonight. It was so stupid we all started laughing. Now... Clerics need surviavilty but this must come from others in the group. Like guard from tanks for example.

    4) Classes that heal can do way way to much DPS. This is obvious but for some reason Trion jacked this up as well. I actually made forums posts in Beta warning againist this but of course Trion... well.

    5) In pvp damage mitigation abilites with timers are king. This is in relation to warriors wtih armor for example. An ability that can reduce all damge by 80%, for example, and for a short time, is better then 60% constant mitigation because of the way heals work and spike dps. Spike dps is the only way to kill someone with healers.

    The list never ends. In summary, nerf rogue and mage ranged dps. Nerf all damge from warlocks and clerics. Make it so soul combinations that can heal have little to no dps. Make it so clerics require group assistance to stay alive. Increase melee surviavilty and spike damage. Increase the hit box for melee because right now a toon just has to run to avoid the majority of melee damage. I am not advocating utterly destroying every calling in the game. I am saying tweak them to make the game more competive.

    In the end, I really don't care. Trion will not fix this mess and if they tried the cries from easy mode kids would be huge. I could be wrong but seen this way to many times.
    There is so much wrong with your post, I don't even know where to start.

    The only thing I agree with is the suggestion that healer class should be more reliant on support and peels to survive instead of just sitting through it and healing like a boss.

    2 rogues 2 mages and 3 warriors not able to kill a single cleric either means:

    1. You are all awful and not specced right or focusing.
    2. The healer was getting crazy cross heals, meaning you had a much more fair fight than "7 people beating on a cleric unable to kill them"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander Salavone View Post
    Absolutely everything. You literally know nothing of "bad PvP" until you step into a WF as a fresh level 50 (bonus points if you are a melee) and get matched up against a rank 6 premade.
    That just means the fresh 50 is lazy and has decided not to make their own group of friends/guildies/server-mates.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Pvp is not broken because your not rank 6 and your not willing to put in the work to get there.

    PVEing to 50 then jumping into wf's and expecting and expecting to be an allstar IS the problem.

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara Znick's Avatar
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    Wow... a whole wall of text that contains nothing but opinion.

    1) No it's not.

    2) Yes they do.

    3) No they're not.

    4) No they don't.

    5) Nuh uh.

    See what I did there?

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  12. #12
    Plane Walker
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    Every one of the OP's points is wrong, or misleading. So much depends on specs, player skill, and tactics/teamwork. I mean you can find players/Wfs where his points might be true, and you can find players/WFs where they absolutely are not true. IMO he has a lot to learn about PvP in Rift and about the various classes/specs and their strengths and weaknesses.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowshovel View Post
    Pvp is not broken because your not rank 6 and your not willing to put in the work to get there.

    PVEing to 50 then jumping into wf's and expecting and expecting to be an allstar IS the problem.
    WOAH WOAH WOAH ... hold the phone. According to another post, PvE'ers top Gear should be the best in the game. And if he PvE'ed to 50 and didnt want to put the time in to get the best gear from dungeons, sounds like he failed. If he PvP'd to 50 through WFs then he'd have the Rank 1 PvP gear which really isnt all that bad.
    But it sounds like he hasn't done either, ran into WFs as a rogue or WAR, naked and expected to top the charts in DPS. Makes me want to bash my head against the wall. Also PvP takes time to get use to since your not able to just macro your way through each fight and expect to win all the time.
    This games PvP is a great start, there just isnt enough of it. Only real problem with PvP in rift. But I digress
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    That just means the fresh 50 is lazy and has decided not to make their own group of friends/guildies/server-mates.
    False. Any premade that's willing to carry rank 1s in blue gear is not much better than any pug.

    What you meant to say was "fresh 50 is unlucky and doesn't have 4 Rank 6 friends who'd be willing to carry them for about two months."
    Last edited by Lysander Salavone; 06-10-2011 at 01:45 PM.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched Almaria SideSwipe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander Salavone View Post
    False. Any premade that's willing to carry rank 1s in blue gear is not much better than any pug.

    What you meant to say was "fresh 50 is unlucky and doesn't have 4 Rank 6 friends who'd be willing to carry them for about two months."
    The simple fact that they are working in a defined group is leaps and bounds better than any pug.

    SideSwipe

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