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Thread: The reason Mages hit so hard

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    Rift Chaser inaliz's Avatar
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    Default The reason Mages hit so hard

    I was looking at my stats the other day and then I was looking at valor. Then to armor, then back to valor and then to my magic resists. Armor reduces physical damage, valor reduces magic and physical damage. SO basically physical damage gets a double resist base where magic only gets valor. This is why mages are hitting so much more then physical dps. The problem is there isn't really a viable way to buff your magic defense enough through gear. You can get resist runes on only 2 pieces of armor I think and you can get specific magic resist type essence. No way can you buff all of your magic resists enough for you to sacrifice all of the dps you lose through these ways.

    An easy way to fix this is for valor to not have a 1;1 ratio for physical defense and magic defense. Make it a 1;2 ratio so that when I have 30% phys dps reduction from valor I get 60% magic resist. This would make up for the double physical damage reduction characters get through armor. That might be too much but I'm sure the right mix could be found through testing.

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser betty's Avatar
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    I like where your thinking is going here - its always angered me that more of my dmg can be mitigated than i can mitigate of my opponants - and its not just mages - any role that does non phys dmg is one up on MM - sure we can get some minor non phys dmg from sin/nb trees but its hardly game breaking - atm my val+leather gives 66.17% phys reduction - so what a cleric or warrior has pretty well makes phys dmg the wet noodle of all the dmg types
    Last edited by betty; 06-09-2011 at 03:59 AM.

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara utterchaos's Avatar
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    Or add armor penetration to high rank armor instead of crit

    But realistically stats should effect things like this:

    example ever 50 int should = 1 focus

    ever 50 wisdom should = 1 magic penetration

    ever 50 strength should = 2 armor penetration to make up for the double dip

    ever 50 dex should = 1 hit

    This would add a nice flavor to stats on gear.

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    Meh, I look at how hard MM can burst me (3-4 globals) with my full R6 Valor, 10% extra mitigation from ele and extra phys resist from armor

    Same with Sab (eg Gustaf)

    Same with Assassin with the armour ignore abilities and bleeds.

    Same with R6 Warriors.

    You guys are doing fine.

    Vs Rogues and Warriors, we get 5sec shutdowns in Burn, and Transference. On the flipside, we have to put up with the freaking Void Knight tree.

    Oh and pretty much everyone having a silence and a purge on hand.

    Oh oh, and our best pvp burst trees in Pyro and Stormcaller have no heal debuff and no silence, making us completely reliant on that Warrior spamming lingering wounds or that rogue with fell blades vs any competent team.
    Last edited by Mezkh; 06-09-2011 at 04:21 AM.

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    Shadowlander Brogarn's Avatar
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    I thought it was because we've been hitting the weights and taking Karate lessons.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Stigas's Avatar
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    Mages fold under any sort of pressure. When a Melee gets on them, they have two choices: Run/CC or die.

    If you leave a Cleric alone and focus the target he's healing, you'll likely never kill that target.

    If you leave a Mage alone and focus someone else, you'll likely die.

    Pick your targets intelligently.
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    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the trade off. Sure, mages are hitting harder, but they also go down much, much faster. While I'm sure mages get plenty of valor, I know they have about as much armor as I have plat right now.

    ...*sobs*

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    Ascendant phoenixfire82's Avatar
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    Mages are a joke for my rogue. Buff them so more play them.
    Last edited by phoenixfire82; 06-09-2011 at 07:05 AM.

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    Rift Disciple MarleyTheMongolianMoose's Avatar
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    Yeah really though.

    Most rogues can destroy me as a mage (especially MM, they tear through me)
    Most warriors can do the same thing

    As long as they are semi-competent (Considering I consider myself pretty good and a ******ed player will end up dying to pretty much anyone) they can take me down when they get on me. It isn't that difficult, I can probably survive for a little while, and if I switch to my more survivable tree I can survive but I won't be outputting a huge amount of damage.

    I've been killed by both, so either you are doing it wrong or you are completely out geared.

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    Rift Chaser inaliz's Avatar
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    I do agree that mages aren't that hard to deal with. Just thought I would share the reason I think people get one shotted by mages. Even myself with full p6 gear(well still need legs/neck)33% reduction I have been hit for 5200 in one shot from a mage. Although if you ever get into a wf against 5 clerics and 5 mages you will soon see that there is definitely something wrong. Noones hp can be touched and people get one shotted with full reduction lol.

    This is more pointed towards the mages that can hit for 5k+ in one shot and towards warriors who have double physical resists and you hit them for next to nothing.

    If I have time I'll get some resist essence and runes and test it out. Could be completely worth it to stack full magic resists instead of dps essence/runes.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Stigas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inaliz View Post
    I do agree that mages aren't that hard to deal with. Just thought I would share the reason I think people get one shotted by mages. Even myself with full p6 gear(well still need legs/neck)33% reduction I have been hit for 5200 in one shot from a mage. Although if you ever get into a wf against 5 clerics and 5 mages you will soon see that there is definitely something wrong. Noones hp can be touched and people get one shotted with full reduction lol.

    This is more pointed towards the mages that can hit for 5k+ in one shot and towards warriors who have double physical resists and you hit them for next to nothing.

    If I have time I'll get some resist essence and runes and test it out. Could be completely worth it to stack full magic resists instead of dps essence/runes.
    Nobody is getting Fulminated for 6600 anymore to my knowledge. That was only possible when using the red ball in it's previous, stupid form. They were running over 2000 spell power with the red ball, since it doubled their 1k+ spell power. Now it's 125 (?) SP.

    If you're getting hit that hard still, there's no way you have a shred of Valor, and they would have to be buffed pretty hard (Bard + Archon + Potions) to reach that I'd imagine.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by inaliz View Post
    An easy way to fix this is for valor to not have a 1;1 ratio for physical defense and magic defense. Make it a 1;2 ratio so that when I have 30% phys dps reduction from valor I get 60% magic resist. This would make up for the double physical damage reduction characters get through armor. That might be too much but I'm sure the right mix could be found through testing.
    So do mages get their cloth upgraded to plate armor then? Like champ|vk|paragon spec isn't already frikken OP.

    /thread.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple MarleyTheMongolianMoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inaliz View Post
    I do agree that mages aren't that hard to deal with. Just thought I would share the reason I think people get one shotted by mages. Even myself with full p6 gear(well still need legs/neck)33% reduction I have been hit for 5200 in one shot from a mage. Although if you ever get into a wf against 5 clerics and 5 mages you will soon see that there is definitely something wrong. Noones hp can be touched and people get one shotted with full reduction lol.

    This is more pointed towards the mages that can hit for 5k+ in one shot and towards warriors who have double physical resists and you hit them for next to nothing.

    If I have time I'll get some resist essence and runes and test it out. Could be completely worth it to stack full magic resists instead of dps essence/runes.
    Yeah, while I am not a super hard hitting pyro. (Not R6 yet, just full R5/R4 with epic other things) there are ways to mitigate a lot of that damage. I've hit clerics and mages for barely anything at times due to shields and other mitigation techniques, just healing won't save you all of the time.

    Get some clerics in there that are built to mitigate incoming damage rather than attempting to heal through it. That is a big problem people have, instead of going the mitigation route (As in mitigating damage output/healing output, or healing/damage input) they instead go for just big numbers. While big numbers are of course useful at killing people, attempting to mitigate those big numbers is pretty damn helpful as well as it can keep your team up to strike at the right moments.

  14. #14
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    Didnt read this whole thread. Physical damage has been fixed in the way of the recent huge buffs that rogues and wars got. Which is why mages are now not top dps in raids anymore. Since Mobs dont have valor rogues and Wars now hit way harder than intended in PvE (IMHO). Mage DPS and Physical DPS is about equal in PvP though.
    Andoreniel - 50 Mage
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  15. #15
    General of Telara Sarathor's Avatar
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    the only thing way I survive a warrior or rogue on me is if I have a cleric backing me up. Since I'm Chloro/ele, I get 10% damage mitigation from talents and an extra 25% from Valor, so they don't hit me quite as hard, but my LGV isn't going to keep me up when attacking them. If there's a Cleric and the enemy doesn't use a purge, then I'm g2g, but if they purge me and there is no cleric it's game over.

    Sarathor@Byriel Rank 7 Defiant Mage - retired
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