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Thread: Black Garden games turning into an utter joke in the lower levels

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Black Garden games turning into an utter joke in the lower levels

    This sort of crap is ruining your Warfront, new players are gonna be so put off by this tactic that you won't have to worry about them whining about lvl 50 pvp, they'll quit long before ever getting there!

    Enemy running fang to within 1m of their spawn so that reinforcements instantly drop down to defend while the others have to run 500m across the map for 30s each time.

    This is your most important warfront, as your entire pvp experience is based around warfronts this is their first and if it's a bad experience it'll put them off the whole thing.


    This proposed fix

    In the red lined area outside of the central arena the fang should gain the enemy team NO POINTS, that way you can still tactically take it away to deny the enemy holding it and gaining extra points, but it means that you can't turtle up an insane defense ontop of your own spawn with the fang hidden behind rocks and become near impenetrable.

  2. #2
    Rift Master Leiloni's Avatar
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    If you're talking about people who hold the flag behind the tree right as you drop down then I've seen that a lot. It's a nice place to hide and LoS and forces the enemy to get up close and run around. Although what I usually see is the enemy team just zergs them and takes them down - I mean the FC can only hold it for so long with the constant HP loss so he's bound to lose it at some point, so then it's just a matter of who can pick it up (or does it sit there long enough to respawn and then who can run over faster). In most fights I haven't seen this be a big problem. It's a good tactic on their part and not hard to counter if you just get together as a team and run over. Forces team work which is part of the game.
    Last edited by Leiloni; 06-02-2011 at 01:10 PM.

  3. #3
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    I agree with you. But your proposition does not really fix anything, it just turns the game into an AOE spamfest.

    Wouldn't it be just better that instead of making less points as you move away from the middle the more damage you take? To the point where the fang oneshots you. That would fix the issue.

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    General of Telara Thulium's Avatar
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    I agree that the enemy mob holding the flag behind their tree is annoying, but they have already lowered ther points awarded there to 1/tick as opposed to 6/tick in the middle.

    It's possible that 0/tick is the way to go, but the first step I think, is to place an overlay on the map to to help new players understand the point distribution. Just my opinion, though.
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    Xsi
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    That just means you'll have "griefers" in the warfronts that take the flag and run away from the fight for zero points for their team. It'll turn into a "camp the spawnpoint" warfront.

    The answer is there shouldn't be side areas. There shouldn't be a wall in the middle of the first drop down area. And all the remaining walls should actually be pillars (or trees). Then take the map and require the flag holder to run back and forth (laterally between the spawn ponits) in order to stop fang damage. The flag should also give a nice -100% non-dispellable heal debuff to make sure the flag holder does this. (Think cricket)

    Quicker games by having more action, more fighting for the objective.

    Also, fix /AFK report tool in warfronts to be against anyone who does no contribution (no damage, no incoming damage, no outward heals) after 1-minute.
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  6. #6
    General of Telara Doktor_Ljubavi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leiloni View Post
    If you're talking about people who hold the flag behind the tree right as you drop down then I've seen that a lot. It's a nice place to hide and LoS and forces the enemy to get up close and run around. Although what I usually see is the enemy team just zergs them and takes them down - I mean the FC can only hold it for so long with the constant HP loss so he's bound to lose it at some point, so then it's just a matter of who can pick it up (or does it sit there long enough to respawn and then who can run over faster). In most fights I haven't seen this be a big problem. It's a good tactic on their part and not hard to counter if you just get together as a team and run over. Forces team work which is part of the game.
    No, the OP is talking about bringing the flag right to their spawn point, where they get 1 pt a tick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xsi View Post
    Also, fix /AFK report tool in warfronts to be against anyone who does no contribution (no damage, no incoming damage, no outward heals) after 1-minute.
    That would screw over a lot of tanks in Whitefall, i go full tank riftstalker there and my damage is so pitiful that I don't even bother, but just go straight for the flag. So how about you use that brain a little before making suggestions like these.

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    Rift Master Leiloni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor_Ljubavi View Post
    No, the OP is talking about bringing the flag right to their spawn point, where they get 1 pt a tick
    Ohhh lol, yea that doesn't happen too much in our WFs. People rarely go into the 1pt zone because the game takes too long when you do that and on the occasion that someone does, everyone starts yelling at them to move back down so they're never there too long.
    Last edited by Leiloni; 06-02-2011 at 01:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xsi View Post
    That just means you'll have "griefers" in the warfronts that take the flag and run away from the fight for zero points for their team. It'll turn into a "camp the spawnpoint" warfront.

    The answer is there shouldn't be side areas. There shouldn't be a wall in the middle of the first drop down area. And all the remaining walls should actually be pillars (or trees). Then take the map and require the flag holder to run back and forth (laterally between the spawn ponits) in order to stop fang damage. The flag should also give a nice -100% non-dispellable heal debuff to make sure the flag holder does this. (Think cricket)

    Quicker games by having more action, more fighting for the objective.

    Also, fix /AFK report tool in warfronts to be against anyone who does no contribution (no damage, no incoming damage, no outward heals) after 1-minute.
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  10. #10
    Rift Disciple JenC's Avatar
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    This happened a lot in the lower levels. Its annoying and I refuse to heal/help anyone on my side who decides to run it up there.

    You get less points (I believe) and a good focus fire will make them drop just fine.


    I've had little problems fixing them running off.

  11. #11
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    Finally an OP with a real point about pvp. Its true. I hate playing on my alts because that tactic is a 95% chance to win and a 100% chance for a long boring game. Whether its my team or the other team doing it, it takes forever. And at level 10-19/20-29, lots of people are stupid AND new to the game. So you rarely get a team smart enough to counter the "1 point lockdown".

    I think you were right, saying that giving 0 points would make people hold the fang in the 0 point zone so they can grief and/or try and get more kills before winning. I think the side zones are pretty ok, but going anywhere on the ramps and where the map is elevated (the two hills with spawns zones at the top) should cause the fang to either

    1. Return to middle

    or

    2. Drop on the floor at a certain invisible boundary.



    I think the second option is best so a team doesnt completely lose the fang for trying to get to their spawn.





    But the op IS correct and this IS a problem. Anyone who says it isnt a problem must be -


    1. Confused. They didnt read the part about "LOWER LEVELS" and think that this isnt a problem because in their level 50 warfronts their team can recover fang easily.

    2. Premade. People running with a 5man premade can easily have enough coordination and communication to counter a pug holding fang by spawn. Since 95% of low level warfronts do not have premades, their opinion is invalid.

    3. Trolls. They are in every thread. They dont know what the problem is. They dont care what the problem is. It doesnt matter if you are posting saying "My shard is bugged and there are NO npcs alive ANYWHERE". They will come and tell you stupid things like "Stop whining the game is OK just get skill".

    4. Inexperienced in the matter. They dont pvp alot and they have only been in one warfront where the other team tried to 1point lockdown. They were lucky enough to get it back in the ONLY time it ever happened to them and they think everything is fine.
    Last edited by GriffonHawke; 06-02-2011 at 01:34 PM.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Here is my suggestion:

    Decrease all healing to the fang carrier by 50%, but allow the fang carriers to drop the fang where and whenever they choose.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrumchannell View Post
    Here is my suggestion:

    Decrease all healing to the fang carrier by 50%, but allow the fang carriers to drop the fang where and whenever they choose.
    So you'd have the fang, get low health, drop it, get healed, pick it up again.. resetting the damage the fang does?

    Dropping the fang is actually already possible if you use some abilities..

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulium View Post
    I agree that the enemy mob holding the flag behind their tree is annoying, but they have already lowered ther points awarded there to 1/tick as opposed to 6/tick in the middle.

    It's possible that 0/tick is the way to go, but the first step I think, is to place an overlay on the map to to help new players understand the point distribution. Just my opinion, though.


    Edit - I think I quoted the wrong post - doh!

    What I meant to quote was the post saying that you'd get strong teams purposely holding the fang in the zero point area and just farming kills.

    I understand what the OP is saying, but this is how that would be abused.
    Last edited by Snyrf; 06-02-2011 at 01:45 PM.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizian View Post
    So you'd have the fang, get low health, drop it, get healed, pick it up again.. resetting the damage the fang does?

    Dropping the fang is actually already possible if you use some abilities..
    No, the OP is referring to holding the fang on one side of the map.

    If healing is halved then a rushing team would have a much greater chance of re-capturing the fang. When the enemy drops the fang, then your team "should" be there to scoop it up or fight while preventing the enemies from picking it up again.

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