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Thread: Valor favors clerics and warriors

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Valor favors clerics and warriors

    This has been discussed I'm sure, but I felt the need to make a new thread.

    If a full valor rank 6 war takes 100,000 damage in a WF that means he mitigated 42,857 damage. If a full valor rank 6 Mage takes 50,000 damage (and a good one should take even less damage) he has mitigated 21,428 damage. It's a huge difference. I'm not suggesting at all that mages or rogues should have higher valor. I'm just saying warriors and clerics are built around survivability while rogue and mages are built around damage. (basic roles here. Not getting into specific builds) so the valor aspect naturally synergizes with those classes. I would take 30% damage over 30% mitigation in an instant as a Mage. Hell I would take 15% damage over 30% mitigation. Currently I'm rank 5 and I only have 4500 HPs. Valor isn't going to help me survive much longer. My best bet to survive is to kill him. Quickly.

    Instead of valor just make pvp stats do more damage against players only so pve players won't get their feelings hurt. It already takes about 100x longer to get decent pvp armor anyway.

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara
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    Then you would greatly favor those who use ranged dps ie ranged rogues, mages and ranged clerics(which are already at a pretty good advantage) and warriors, healer clerics and meele clerics would be at a disadvantage ^^

  3. #3
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    Valor is equal across the board, because those Warriors, and Clerics are doing less damage too.

    Like all games, damage in PvP is substantially higher than it needs to be because of the high damage needed in PvE. Because of this most games reduce damage in PvP by 40%, to reduce the time to kill, so that people have a chance to fight. I collect 30 hours a week worth of parses using Advanced Combat Trakcer, and the damage output in Rift without Valor is roughly 45.6% higher than healing output. With exceptions from classes like Chloro, Archon, and Bard who put out a substantially less amount of damage.

    So quit complaining about Valor, and adjust your specs accordingly, you still have a large window of killing power, especially if you ASSIST.


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  4. #4
    Rift Chaser
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    you do realize statistically that the warrior has only mitigated 1/1000 of a percent more damage then the mage? (based on the numbers you've posted warrior absorbs 42.857%, mage 42.856)

    warriors do need to be at the front lines, clerics theoretically should be too (wheres this front line healer i keep hearing about), but as far as the damage idea. Mages can stand how far away from their target? 30m? You really think you need a damage buff with that? i realize that valor can be perceived as being less important to a ranged character, but the fact that you're willing to give up that defense for damage stands out as peculiar. If valor is less important to you, it seems to suggest that it doesn't come into play very often, which in turn seems to suggest that damage probably isn't your short coming. This is obviously spec specific but im rank 5, if i run with 38 points in vk, there are mages i can not beat unless fusion of flesh is up (complete heal 20 percent per magic attack, 5 stacks). That with a 45% magic mitigation rating, a 2500 magic damage shield, and i tend to pop a warding potion at the same time (1900 damage absorption).

    As far as valor's base contribution, in terms of clerics and warriors, there greatest boom is going to be in melee mitigation since they wear high value armor (points wise), magic mitigation (warriors specifically, hard to include clerics with the heal side of things) only becomes impressive if you spec into talents mostly in defense trees for extra magic mitigation. If you go that path, due to the points required, you do gain a lot of defense but you also give up a lot of damage.

  5. #5
    Champion TheBidnis's Avatar
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    Have you ever been FF'd constantly in a WF before.... i know that's all i get in my cluster. Once your known to be a good Healer say goodbye to your carefree days. Im CC'd and FF'd on site and that's no joke.

    EDIT: and in the month ive been 50 and doing WF's each piece of gear that replaces a non Valor piece is worth its weight in survivability. People who are telling you to buy your R6 gear and horde it away are in fact contributing to the harvesting of your Prestige and Favor. You need every ounce of help you can get and by buying 1 or 2 pieces of gear at each level you are in fact helping more than your hurting.
    Last edited by TheBidnis; 05-31-2011 at 09:59 AM.
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  6. #6
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBidnis View Post
    Have you ever been FF'd constantly in a WF before.... i know that's all i get in my cluster. Once your known to be a good Healer say goodbye to your carefree days. Im CC'd and FF'd on site and that's no joke.
    Yep... constantly have sins, pyros, sabs, stormcallers, champions focussing me.

    Without valor, would be pointless to heal as you would die so fast the winning strategy would always be "kill the healer first"

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturegoulet View Post
    you do realize statistically that the warrior has only mitigated 1/1000 of a percent more damage then the mage? (based on the numbers you've posted warrior absorbs 42.857%, mage 42.856)

    warriors do need to be at the front lines, clerics theoretically should be too (wheres this front line healer i keep hearing about), but as far as the damage idea. Mages can stand how far away from their target? 30m? You really think you need a damage buff with that? i realize that valor can be perceived as being less important to a ranged character, but the fact that you're willing to give up that defense for damage stands out as peculiar. If valor is less important to you, it seems to suggest that it doesn't come into play very often, which in turn seems to suggest that damage probably isn't your short coming. This is obviously spec specific but im rank 5, if i run with 38 points in vk, there are mages i can not beat unless fusion of flesh is up (complete heal 20 percent per magic attack, 5 stacks). That with a 45% magic mitigation rating, a 2500 magic damage shield, and i tend to pop a warding potion at the same time (1900 damage absorption).

    As far as valor's base contribution, in terms of clerics and warriors, there greatest boom is going to be in melee mitigation since they wear high value armor (points wise), magic mitigation (warriors specifically, hard to include clerics with the heal side of things) only becomes impressive if you spec into talents mostly in defense trees for extra magic mitigation. If you go that path, due to the points required, you do gain a lot of defense but you also give up a lot of damage.
    I just didn't round out perfectly. 30% for all classes obviously. You are correct that damage isn't my issue. The main benefit of pvp armor is valor and it favors certain classes more than others because of the way those classes are played. I'm not comparing certain 1v1 situations here as all classes have an easier time versus some and a harder time versus others.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundial View Post
    Yep... constantly have sins, pyros, sabs, stormcallers, champions focussing me.

    Without valor, would be pointless to heal as you would die so fast the winning strategy would always be "kill the healer first"
    If post come across as "valor is worthless" I didn't mean for it too. Good positioning > valor for a ranged class. Im not whining about ranged at all. With as few healing clerics as there are I can't imagine playing melee. I just don't think ranged get the same benefit from valor. I just wonder if I had top end pve armor if I would be better off...?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enchilada View Post
    If post come across as "valor is worthless" I didn't mean for it too. Good positioning > valor for a ranged class. Im not whining about ranged at all. With as few healing clerics as there are I can't imagine playing melee. I just don't think ranged get the same benefit from valor. I just wonder if I had top end pve armor if I would be better off...?
    MM still hit me for 2-2.5K bursts with valor gear lol... Pyros hit me for huge numbers. Its not like there is not enough damage going out at ranged.

  10. #10
    Sez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundial View Post
    MM still hit me for 2-2.5K bursts with valor gear lol... Pyros hit me for huge numbers. Its not like there is not enough damage going out at ranged.
    Ths one time, I was fighting Sundial and Praedo, and I blinked, and Praedo died. Then, I blinked again, and Sundials group killed me.

    Yay for .5 second fights! PvP is FUN.
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