+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 42

Thread: PVP isn't fun at all at 50.

  1. #1
    Fik
    Fik is offline
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    347

    Default PVP isn't fun at all at 50.

    I lvl'ed up pvp'n and I'm very good. Till now....I took a break to pve my toon at 50 and gear up till around the end of T2. When I got back to PVP'n, the huge gap that is there now is unreal.


    I'm a huge fan of MMO games, and i've been playing them for a long long time. All this same crap is in WOW; I think it's due to PVP gear. It destroys the game when it's segregated from PVE and only obtainable by going ungeared and getting farmed for X amount of time. DAOC didnt have PVP gear, and it felt like everything boiled down to skill, and tactic and gear(which was obtainable from PVE) and it was by far my best memory of a MMO, aside from getting zerged by premades.

    Example : In PVE you have constant progression all the way to endgame; in PVP, you have progression till 49. Then there is a massive gap which I know I simply can't endure, I'll go crazy.
    Last edited by Fik; 05-30-2011 at 10:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Banned Destructiveurges's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    105

    Default

    No u are right DAOC didnt have pvp armor what DAOC did have was a xtra points based system meaning the more u pvp'ed the more points you got the stronger at pvp u were so a fresh max lvl in daoc stil lgot owned by the veterans
    so technically DAOC did have pvp gear but in the way of points to spend to enhance your abilites so basically no difference than having pvp armor.

  3. #3
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,349

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fik View Post
    I lvl'ed up pvp'n and I'm very good. Till now....I took a break to pve my toon at 50 and gear up till around the end of T2. When I got back to PVP'n, the huge gap that is there now is unreal.


    I'm a huge fan of MMO games, and i've been playing them for a long long time. All this same crap is in WOW; I think it's due to PVP gear. It destroys the game when it's segregated from PVE and only obtainable by going ungeared and getting farmed for X amount of time. DAOC didnt have PVP gear, and it felt like everything boiled down to skill, and tactic and gear(which was obtainable from PVE) and it was by far my best memory of a MMO, aside from getting zerged by premades.

    Example : In PVE you have constant progression all the way to endgame; in PVP, you have progression till 49. Then there is a massive gap which I know I simply can't endure, I'll go crazy.
    If you leveled up through PvP, you were probably sitting on 120-150k favor. Around 120k favor is all you need to buy all 10 pieces of rank 1/2 PvP gear that will give you 17% damage reduction from valor. That leaves weapons. If you've been gearing through T2 you probably already have decent weapons. If you're like me and haven't set foot in a dungeon since regular RotF, your options are a little more restricted.

    You can advance from rank 1 to rank 2 in as little as 10-11 solid Port Scion wins.

    People who wait until level 50 to start doing warfronts are the ones at a significant disadvantage not only because they have to start the favor grind for gear well behind the curve, but because they're showing up to maps that other people have been getting very familiar with much earlier on. In fairness, if a person started running warfronts at around level 30 they're not going to be all that far behind someone who started at level 10 in terms of favor, but the bottom line is that warfronts at 50 are a competitive environment and you have to pay your dues and take your lumps on the way up like everyone else. The only ones who got to avoid that were the first wave of players to rank 6.

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara Telal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    I just leveled a cleric to 50, never zoned into any dungeon, in 4 days, i'm rank 3, with full rank 1/2 gear, and saving up for my rank 4 weapon (and whatever else I will buy to not cap my favor otw to rank 5 gear)..

    Pvp at 50 is a lot of fun, as long as you aren't in a warfront with a bunch of dolts.

  5. #5
    Fik
    Fik is offline
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    347

    Default

    I still stand behind my statement, PVP gear is a big problem in all the restrictions in place. In wow, you were able to purchase some "ok" pvp items via pve badges, at the least this provided some ample reduction.

    As one of you stated above, a fresh 50 has it rough. This being said, queues will be longer (my server takes 30+ min) as less will want play.

  6. #6
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,707

    Default

    experience > gear
    group > gear

    stick with it and work on above 2. gear is a distant 3rd.

  7. #7
    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ururu View Post
    experience > gear
    group > gear

    stick with it and work on above 2. gear is a distant 3rd.
    Between two equally experienced groups...

    ...gear decides.

    They really need to separate Rank/Tier(Gear)...and just open the regional clusters.
    Kincayd (1)* - Omeki (1) - Comma (2) - Bugeisha (2) - Malphesiel (3)
    (1) Carrion -> (2) Threesprings -> (3) Deepwood
    *formerly Plague@Carrion
    DEFIANT

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Whistler85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Destructiveurges View Post
    No u are right DAOC didnt have pvp armor what DAOC did have was a xtra points based system meaning the more u pvp'ed the more points you got the stronger at pvp u were so a fresh max lvl in daoc stil lgot owned by the veterans
    so technically DAOC did have pvp gear but in the way of points to spend to enhance your abilites so basically no difference than having pvp armor.
    I've seen this argument over and over. It would be valid, except for the timelines.

    A new 50 in DAOC wouldn't stand a chance against RR5+.

    Back when DAOC first came out (just like this game), there were no R5's within a month of hitting 50.

    After about 6 months you started to get to the point where there were players who simply could not be killed by new 50's. But the progression was slower so there were still plenty of players in the RR-1Lx and RR-2Lx bracket to kill.

    In this game, new 50's can't compete with players who hit 50 7 days before them. For about a week or two they have to eat death after death until they are finally carried to P3+.

    A month or 6 weeks of hard grinding and your into P5+ allowing you to contribute significantly due to the cap being 6 at the moment.

    But the fact remains, new 50's have to be carried into higher ranks. How would you feel if the first time you logged into the game there were level 30 mobs everywhere with the brief level 1 mob surrounded by level 30 mobs. Even with the help of a level 30 player you could do nothing but die and die again, and it stayed that way for a couple weeks till you were level 30.

    PvP progression in this game is way accelerated and FUBAR.
    Last edited by Whistler85; 05-31-2011 at 12:18 PM.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara Villaintine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,080

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistler85 View Post
    But the fact remains, new 50's have to be carried into higher ranks. How would you feel if the first time you logged into the game there were level 30 mobs everywhere with the brief level 1 mob surrounded by level 30 mobs. Even with the help of a level 30 player you could do nothing but die and die again, and it stayed that way for a couple weeks till you were level 30.

    PvP progression in this game is way accelerated and FUBAR.
    The difference in progression paths is very strange. PvE progression makes sense as it's clear you should complete T1s, move to T2s then when properly geared raids.

    In PvP once you hit cap you have to get steamrolled and farmed until you achieve a high enough prestige level to be competitive. It's no wonder at all that players AFK or refuse to participate in warfronts if they aren't at a competitive prestige level- who really wants to just feed the other side more favor than they are getting from winning in the first place?
    "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." -Frank Zappa

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    280

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Villaintine View Post
    ho really wants to just feed the other side more favor than they are getting from winning in the first place?
    You'd get surprised

  11. #11
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistler85 View Post
    I've seen this argument over and over. It would be valid, except for the timelines.

    A new 50 in DAOC wouldn't stand a chance against RR5+.

    Back when DAOC first came out (just like this game), there were no R5's within a month of hitting 50.

    After about 6 months you started to get to the point where there were players who simply could not be killed by new 50's. But the progression was slower so there were still plenty of players in the RR-1Lx and RR-2Lx bracket to kill.

    In this game, new 50's can't compete with players who hit 50 7 days before them. For about a week or two they have to eat death after death until they are finally carried to P3+.

    A month or 6 weeks of hard grinding and your into P5+ allowing you to contribute significantly due to the cap being 6 at the moment.

    But the fact remains, new 50's have to be carried into higher ranks. How would you feel if the first time you logged into the game there were level 30 mobs everywhere with the brief level 1 mob surrounded by level 30 mobs. Even with the help of a level 30 player you could do nothing but die and die again, and it stayed that way for a couple weeks till you were level 30.

    PvP progression in this game is way accelerated and FUBAR.
    The above is a common enough complaint that it does seem reasonable to try to address with some sort of tiered queue system especially considering that most of the R6s now road the wave of a new game and only had to worry about emptying their pee jars instead of facing the rank gap.

    I would be afraid of making things worse in the way of queue times.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    337

    Default The cornerstone of ANY PVP needs to be balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fik View Post
    I lvl'ed up pvp'n and I'm very good. Till now....I took a break to pve my toon at 50 and gear up till around the end of T2. When I got back to PVP'n, the huge gap that is there now is unreal.


    I'm a huge fan of MMO games, and i've been playing them for a long long time. All this same crap is in WOW; I think it's due to PVP gear. It destroys the game when it's segregated from PVE and only obtainable by going ungeared and getting farmed for X amount of time. DAOC didnt have PVP gear, and it felt like everything boiled down to skill, and tactic and gear(which was obtainable from PVE) and it was by far my best memory of a MMO, aside from getting zerged by premades.

    Example : In PVE you have constant progression all the way to endgame; in PVP, you have progression till 49. Then there is a massive gap which I know I simply can't endure, I'll go crazy.
    The problem with MMO PVP is that it designed to reward those who dedicate their lives to it. It is clearly evident that the playing field is severely tilted in favor of those players who have Achieved Higher levels in PVP. This is a fundamental problem in that the cornerstone of any PVP game needs to be balance and while this game arguably strives to accomplish this abilities wise, it fails epically in the gear department.

    When you put level 6 pvp players in the same game with level 1 pvp players, how can Trion expect that PVP would be even remotely fun for the Level 1 guys. Furthermore, factor in the significant numbers of premades that play Warfronts and the funfactor is reduced to "0".

    I am merely muttling my way through the PVP just to nit pick my way up the prestige ranks. Its not fun in the least and I find it to be quite a chore. This game needs to take a page from shooters and figure out how to balance the experience. The beauty of the shooter is that it doesn't matter if you are on day 1 or day 1001. You are able to compete and succeed. This is clearly not the case here. If you haven't been grinding out PVP since day 1 then you are behind the 8 ball and life will be excrutiating while you catch up. I made that mistake by playing all PVE to 50. Now I am paying the price while I try to level up PVP. To tell the truth, this is a gamebreaker for me and I can't see myself playing this that much longer and will likely cancel my subscription when it comes due. PVP is all I have left to keep me in this game and unfortunately it is very unsatisfying.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Destructiveurges View Post
    No u are right DAOC didnt have pvp armor what DAOC did have was a xtra points based system meaning the more u pvp'ed the more points you got the stronger at pvp u were so a fresh max lvl in daoc stil lgot owned by the veterans
    so technically DAOC did have pvp gear but in the way of points to spend to enhance your abilites so basically no difference than having pvp armor.
    Exactly. Realm points in DAoC was what PvP gear is today, a way to differentiate hard core pvp'rs from low rank pvp'rs. Those realm points made a huge difference in DAoC. A new lvl 50 would come to the frontier and find that they were farmed like a lvl 40, because without the skills from realm points you were at a huge disadvantage. It was one of the things that hurt the game because it drive away the casual players. That was happening even before Trials of Atlantis which was such a grind and the gear so powerful that it exxacerbated the trend greatly and basically ruined the player base. You were left with the god-like hardcore players in their ToA gear and their million+ realm points, but with fewer and fewer players to fight, until the frontiers were just a 8 man group looking for an enemy 8 man group to fight.
    Eol, Chloromancer and Justinian, Inquistor, Guardians of Faeblight.
    Previous incarnations include: Camring and Camran, SWTOR; Ceol & Duri - LotRO; Eol - L2; Kili - WoW; Camring - SWG; Justinian, Camring - DAoC

  14. #14
    Xsi
    Xsi is offline
    Shield of Telara Xsi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    710

    Default

    The best part is patch 1.2 made it worse. If Trion had left PvP gear alone (maybe added p6 weapons) and fixed the broken PvP (stackable) talents, everything would have been fine as is for 6 months.
    Vow - <The Granite Guard> Dayblind (Guardian)
    Vow - Sunrest (Guardian)
    Master Outfitter, Master Butcher, and Master Fo-rager

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bltzkrieg666 View Post
    The problem with MMO PVP is that it designed to reward those who dedicate their lives to it. It is clearly evident that the playing field is severely tilted in favor of those players who have Achieved Higher levels in PVP.
    Most PvP games have that problem. On the one hand, the hardcore players want to be rewarded for playing; they need their 'carrot'. No carrot and they get bored and quit. On the other hand, the more powerful the reward, the more casual players are driven off by the huge discrepency ibetween high rank and low rank players. I just posted about DAoC, and while many players remember that game fondly (I know I do), it had this problem and never really solved it. TYhey tried to keep the hard core players by adding more hardcore content and rewards but that just increased the (already large) gap between in power between the high rank and low rank players which drove off most of the casual and semihardcore players. And as they disappeared, even the high rank players got bored and quit too.

    Anyway, few if any games have solved that. Just like they havent solved the endgame problems in general of providing new quests and gear for the never-ending demand from hardcore players. Gear-gating instances is just another way of doing the same thing. Its jus that in pvp, its more noticeable because the low rank player is getting rolled by the high rank player while the low rank player tries to grind to high rank.
    Eol, Chloromancer and Justinian, Inquistor, Guardians of Faeblight.
    Previous incarnations include: Camring and Camran, SWTOR; Ceol & Duri - LotRO; Eol - L2; Kili - WoW; Camring - SWG; Justinian, Camring - DAoC

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts