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Thread: PVP has never been the "point"

  1. #76
    Soulwalker
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    It's difficult for me to understand the premise for most of the arguments in this thread. What exactly is stopping you from PvPing? Why does there need to be more PvP "content" for people to PvP? Just go do it. There is opportunity for world PvP, why must there also be a bunch of artificial incentives to do it? As it is there are already features in place to encourage PvP. There are warfronts that make objective based PvP easily accessible. There are world events which lure players out of the main cities. The game is still in its infancy, and yet you're already demanding more right now. It just comes off as petulant and lazy.

    If a large majority of the playerbase wants PvP and is focused on doing it (as some would suggest), then it would be happening regularly. Complaining about LFD instance queing and the such is pointless because you're complaining about not being able to engage people in PvP who aren't looking to do PvP in the first place. That's not a failing on Trion's part, it's on what the playerbase wants to spend its time doing. And if that is PvE content, it's no wonder Trion is going to make that their focus.

  2. #77
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    In EvE for example you fight over territory, resources, and you can create your own far reaching kingdom so long as you can defend it. They gave us stuff to fight over which is why I played that game for 6 years. Why should I go out in Rift and open world gank someone for a lousy 20 favor? Its lackluster boring and not well thought out.

  3. #78
    General of Telara Pippington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raeph View Post
    It's difficult for me to understand the premise for most of the arguments in this thread. What exactly is stopping you from PvPing? Why does there need to be more PvP "content" for people to PvP? Just go do it. There is opportunity for world PvP, why must there also be a bunch of artificial incentives to do it? As it is there are already features in place to encourage PvP. There are warfronts that make objective based PvP easily accessible. There are world events which lure players out of the main cities. The game is still in its infancy, and yet you're already demanding more right now. It just comes off as petulant and lazy.

    If a large majority of the playerbase wants PvP and is focused on doing it (as some would suggest), then it would be happening regularly. Complaining about LFD instance queing and the such is pointless because you're complaining about not being able to engage people in PvP who aren't looking to do PvP in the first place. That's not a failing on Trion's part, it's on what the playerbase wants to spend its time doing. And if that is PvE content, it's no wonder Trion is going to make that their focus.

    Launching a MMO in 2011 without RvR is nearly as bad as launching an MMO in 2011 without a guild bank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartolomeus D View Post
    Queueing solo should not place you in a warfront against opponents that queued as a group.

    It's that simple.

  4. #79
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by segro View Post
    Thats lesson all MMO developers should learn...players that go away very, very rarely come back, even to games they liked
    Case and point Everquest II. Very good game a year after launch. It recovered but never fully from the launch stigma. Because it was crap at launch.

  5. #80
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raeph View Post
    It's difficult for me to understand the premise for most of the arguments in this thread. What exactly is stopping you from PvPing? Why does there need to be more PvP "content" for people to PvP? Just go do it. There is opportunity for world PvP, why must there also be a bunch of artificial incentives to do it? As it is there are already features in place to encourage PvP. There are warfronts that make objective based PvP easily accessible. There are world events which lure players out of the main cities. The game is still in its infancy, and yet you're already demanding more right now. It just comes off as petulant and lazy.

    If a large majority of the playerbase wants PvP and is focused on doing it (as some would suggest), then it would be happening regularly. Complaining about LFD instance queing and the such is pointless because you're complaining about not being able to engage people in PvP who aren't looking to do PvP in the first place. That's not a failing on Trion's part, it's on what the playerbase wants to spend its time doing. And if that is PvE content, it's no wonder Trion is going to make that their focus.
    Bragging rights, that feeling of taking something from them. In your face fool we have your castle. Come and TRY to get it back. Giving people stuff that MEANS SOMETHING to fight over fires up the competitive juices. It becomes less about just smashing the other player and more about achieving something by smashing the other player. Bragging rights and real world effects for them. Worst of all, it's personal. You get attached to these things. Be they towers or keeps or towns or what. Those are YOURS, oh hellz no they ain't gonna take them from you, prepare to deal with me...because you just screwed up buddy. That there is mine and i'm taking it back. Afterwards I'm gonna taunt you from the ramparts because I can. Specific players I will bow to for being good/honorable. Jerks I will teabag without a second thought.

    It adds FEELING to it. That's the main difference. It gives you stuff to care about, and stuff to take away from the enemy and to have taken away from you.

  6. #81
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randell44 View Post

    It adds FEELING to it. That's the main difference. It gives you stuff to care about, and stuff to take away from the enemy and to have taken away from you.
    Exactly. People used to suicide and lose few hours worth of PVE in DAOC when they'd see message "Caer Benowyc is under attack by xx enemies". They could run back, but they'd suicide because they'd come to Beno faster that way

  7. #82
    General of Telara Pippington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randell44 View Post
    Bragging rights, that feeling of taking something from them. In your face fool we have your castle. Come and TRY to get it back. Giving people stuff that MEANS SOMETHING to fight over fires up the competitive juices. It becomes less about just smashing the other player and more about achieving something by smashing the other player. Bragging rights and real world effects for them. Worst of all, it's personal. You get attached to these things. Be they towers or keeps or towns or what. Those are YOURS, oh hellz no they ain't gonna take them from you, prepare to deal with me...because you just screwed up buddy. That there is mine and i'm taking it back. Afterwards I'm gonna taunt you from the ramparts because I can. Specific players I will bow to for being good/honorable. Jerks I will teabag without a second thought.

    It adds FEELING to it. That's the main difference. It gives you stuff to care about, and stuff to take away from the enemy and to have taken away from you.



    That's the thing, a lot of people that don't understand RvR, think it's about MAKING people fight.

    It's not that at all, it's about creating a framework that makes people WANT to fight.

    After that it is just fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartolomeus D View Post
    Queueing solo should not place you in a warfront against opponents that queued as a group.

    It's that simple.

  8. #83
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    It is tough to decide where to begin addressing your post, which I think takes a very unfair view towards PvP players and in many cases ignores the dynamics of Rift. I agree with you that there does not really need to be a "carrot" for people to pvp and pvping for the sake of pvping should be considered one of the largest "rewards" from pvp.

    You touched on the root of the problem of the lack of open world pvp without realizing it when you stated "PVE invariably creates new PVP opportunities". This is so true and has been seen in so many successful MMOs known for their PvP. Now examine PvE content in Rift, for level 50s everything is instanced except for Raid Rifts and Invasions. There aren't any non instanced areas for level 50's to camp for worthwhile loot (Shimmersand beach rifts is about as close as it gets) to act as a PvE/PvP hub. Guarding zone entrances like you suggest is a joke since as you stated they can instantly get in with the lfg, let alone that 1 person can bring an entire raid into a zone or that their are a host of PvP immunity tricks which could be used to get past this sort of blockade anyway.

    PvPers are upset because regardless of any PvP content, there has been no communication with the PvP playerbase as to what direction we can expect PvP content to go or even if any content will be released (although I think we all know that at some point it has to be more than 4 warfronts). PvEers have had the release of River of Souls, Gilded Prophecy as well as being told that Hammerknell and 2 new 10 man instances are on the way. The majority of PvPers in this game understand it is PvE focused and that most new content will be for PvE. All that we ask is that we receive a similar level of communication in regards to the future of PvP in the game.

    Trion has in many ways made it more difficult to PvP in the open world than previously by adding numerous extra guards to the quest hubs as well as putting them on nearly instant respawns. Many people from both PvE and PvP servers complain about the mob density in the game and how it is nearly impossible to move around the world without aggroing things. It is inevitable in any mobile open world pvp battle for someone to aggro an NPC, regardless of whether the NPC hits you or not, simply being in combat with it will cause you take vitality loss when killed in PvP. So you have a world full of mobs and guards giving vitality loss to anyone engaging in open world pvp.


    Talking **** doesn't make you a pvper, it just makes you a ******.
    I agree. I dont care if there is an equal amount of pvp and pve content. I would just like similar treatment in terms of communication about what may be coming down the pipe in the future. A well done rvr zone would satisfy most if not all of the pvpers in this game. one zone surely isnt equal to 5 raids but the pvpers would be satisfied.
    Samuraijack 39 Warrior <Ruin>
    Gza 20 Rogue <Ruin>

  9. #84
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by skodewarde View Post
    I agree. I dont care if there is an equal amount of pvp and pve content. I would just like similar treatment in terms of communication about what may be coming down the pipe in the future. A well done rvr zone would satisfy most if not all of the pvpers in this game. one zone surely isnt equal to 5 raids but the pvpers would be satisfied.
    It'll help minimize how much damage select classes and combinations can do as well.

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