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Thread: Put in a "scramble" feature for solo queues for warfronts.

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    Rift Chaser Fiala's Avatar
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    Default Put in a "scramble" feature for solo queues for warfronts.

    With your annoucement that you're separating queues for pugs and premades, I'd like to see a "scramble" feature for the solo queue to combat players trying to queue at the same time to get around the solo que.

    It's been done in WOW..and I have no doubt they'll try to pull this in Rift too.

    What the "scramble" would do is change the times for EVERY soloer that queues at the same time a slightly different "timer" for each one to get into a game. Therefore guaranteeing that they all won't get the same game even if they only queue for one particular warfront.

    And yes I know people will intentionally try to make "premades" to get into the solo queue with such a maneuver. It's human nature to cheat, after all.

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    Ascendant Jeffreys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiala View Post
    With your annoucement that you're separating queues for pugs and premades, ....
    Got a link for that? Last I heard, they were "looking into" making it work the way it's supposed to work now.

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    So much thought goes into "how to protect ourselves from the people who play better than us."

    Really, it's getting kind of old.

    Warfronts are a team activity. Just because it says to queue solo doesn't make you a solo player in a warfront. You're joining a team. Act like it. Communicate. Coordinate. The devs are already making an effort to protect you from yourselves. Play better. Stop asking for kiddie versions of group content.

    I was in a full PUG last night in Codex up against one of the most notorious Defiant premades in our shard cluster. All they do is run Codex. You never see them anywhere else. Their group includes two fully geared R6 senticars. We lost, but we gave it almost as bad as we took it, including being within 5 seconds of four capping them on two occasions. I can't remember the last time I was so pleased with a loss.

    Plans are underway to reduce the likelihood of a full PUG being sent in against a premade. Asking for more just makes you look whiny.

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    Classic, we already have people complaining about a system that hasnt even been tested let alone implemented yet. Good to know the bads whining about premades are cocked and ready to whine about something else when that excuse is gone.
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    Ascendant Jeffreys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    ...

    I was in a full PUG last night in Codex up against one of the most notorious Defiant premades in our shard cluster. All they do is run Codex. You never see them anywhere else. Their group includes two fully geared R6 senticars. We lost, but we gave it almost as bad as we took it, including being within 5 seconds of four capping them on two occasions. I can't remember the last time I was so pleased with a loss.

    Plans are underway to reduce the likelihood of a full PUG being sent in against a premade. Asking for more just makes you look whiny.
    I was there and got to experience that. They also run Port Scion and they get more than one group in at a time. Additionally, their members are the most vocal opponents of separate queues. And it's no wonder. Saw them a second time that night and they actually faced a premade. They got wrecked. So who are the whiners? And who are the bads? Those afraid to face a team on equal footing or those who seek equal footing?
    Last edited by Jeffreys; 05-30-2011 at 03:21 PM.

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    Ascendant Jeffreys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    Classic, we already have people complaining about a system that hasnt even been tested let alone implemented yet. Good to know the bads whining about premades are cocked and ready to whine about something else when that excuse is gone.
    So, how are your experiments on getting your group into a single warfront without queueing as a group coming along?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    I was there and got to experience that. They also run Port Scion and they get more than one group in at a time. Additionally, their members are the most vocal opponents of separate queues. And it's no wonder. Saw them a second time that night and they actually faced a premade. They got wrecked. So who are the whiners? And who are the bads? Those afraid to face a team on equal footing or those who seek equal footing?
    The thing is, I don't mind going up against a group like that from time to time because as a PUG...a full PUG...against a group like that, you really get to step up and see whether you're actually able to perform or if you're only winning because the other team is constantly worse than you.

    I absolutely agree...there are people right now that roll in premades on a regular basis because it gives them a dominant edge and they would not be happy (and might even stop running warfronts as a premade) if suddenly they had to face another premade every time they queued up.

    "Equal footing" in a warfront is a pipe dream. It's a myth put forward by people who don't grasp the big picture. I've gone into Black Garden matches on a team with no healers at all and trounced teams with three healers.

    The simple fact of the matter is that there have been no announced plans to split PUGs and premades into seperate queues. All we've been told is that they're continuing to examine ways of reducing the likelihood that a premade will be matched against a full PUG. And if the wargroup merges work out and the pool of players running warfronts can support it, maybe then they can look at fully segregated queues.

    Until then, all these people hopeful that any patch any time soon is going to eliminate the chance of their PUG facing a premade are dreaming. And before they set themselves up for disappointment, they might want to just focus on upping their own game to be competitive against a broader spectrum of players.

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    Rift Chaser Fiala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    So much thought goes into "how to protect ourselves from the people who play better than us."

    Really, it's getting kind of old.

    Warfronts are a team activity. Just because it says to queue solo doesn't make you a solo player in a warfront. You're joining a team. Act like it. Communicate. Coordinate. The devs are already making an effort to protect you from yourselves. Play better. Stop asking for kiddie versions of group content.

    I was in a full PUG last night in Codex up against one of the most notorious Defiant premades in our shard cluster. All they do is run Codex. You never see them anywhere else. Their group includes two fully geared R6 senticars. We lost, but we gave it almost as bad as we took it, including being within 5 seconds of four capping them on two occasions. I can't remember the last time I was so pleased with a loss.

    Plans are underway to reduce the likelihood of a full PUG being sent in against a premade. Asking for more just makes you look whiny.
    Way to miss the point. It does sound like you're condoning cheating. What I am trying to do is keep those lamers who can't PvP without a premade in a PUG only queue from ever entering the warfront with a premade. It means they're simply incapable of handling the REAL premades who actually want to fight other premades.

    And that is YOUR ONLY excuse. I've yet to see anyone from a premade actually claim they want to fight another premade. Anyone who says otherwise is a flaming LIAR because they don't want balance or a level playing field. They just want to win period.

    How are they any different from pyros who defended pre-nerf GOS ? /sarcasm

    And FYI..I've seen plenty of players from premades try to pug it. And quite a number of them were epic fail because they simply weren't used to operating without healers humping them or handheld via Ventrilo.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiala View Post
    With your annoucement that you're separating queues for pugs and premades, I'd like to see a "scramble" feature for the solo queue to combat players trying to queue at the same time to get around the solo que.

    It's been done in WOW..and I have no doubt they'll try to pull this in Rift too.

    What the "scramble" would do is change the times for EVERY soloer that queues at the same time a slightly different "timer" for each one to get into a game. Therefore guaranteeing that they all won't get the same game even if they only queue for one particular warfront.

    And yes I know people will intentionally try to make "premades" to get into the solo queue with such a maneuver. It's human nature to cheat, after all.
    First off, I'd just like to thank the devs for working on seperating ques. I like your idea of scrambling the ques. I agree that it's human nature for some to cheat and if people can get around this que issue so they can still premade vs pugs, they definitely will.

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    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    When I pvp, at the very most on a given night there are only 2 WFs running for my bracket. A winning one and a losing one. As long as you time your queues right, you can stay in the same one all night.

    A scrambler would be nice.

  11. #11
    Sword of Telara
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    ahh, what's the problem to fight against other premades?
    ohh i get it, against solo queues the chance of lossing is almost zero.
    like cheating, but like a ******.

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    Ascendant Jeffreys's Avatar
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    Just want to point out that Trion has not said they would separate the queues.

    Meanwhile:
    Old games have switched to separate queues. Age of Conan. Wow? (never played)
    New games will start with separate queues. GW2, Star Wars

    Rift tried a half solution. And it didn't work. Maybe they've got another solution and I'm certainly open to that. Premade vs premade can be fun too, even if you're an add on pugger. But full pug vs premade sucks ***.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiala View Post
    I've yet to see anyone from a premade actually claim they want to fight another premade. Anyone who says otherwise is a flaming LIAR because they don't want balance or a level playing field. They just want to win period.
    I have seen several posts from players who run premades requesting the separation of the queues. Every one of them cite the exact same reason as well...they want their warfronts to be a challenge.

    As an almost exclusive PUG player, I've been following threads related to queue separation with some interest, yet have refrained from a lot of commenting. Why? I have no strong feelings about it either way. I do think the separation would result in a better experience all around in warfronts, but also realize that queue times could suffer for everyone with such a change. Queue times have to be a major part of this discussion, and I think the current goals in this area that Trion has announced is a great step.

    @OP, I think your idea is excellent as well. People will try to find a way to circumvent the system if given the opportunity*, and anything Trion can do to prevent that should be looked into.

    With the current trend of merging the server clusters to make larger pools for the warfronts, it may also be worth asking them to consider one player from each server that has someone in queue type loop. The group that Sunrest is in currently now has seven servers in the cluster. That could potentially set up full pug teams with no more than three players from the same server on average, even in Port Scion.

    *Off topic, but valid example of people abusing the system would be the LFG random dungeon queue. Simple facts are, if you use the tool to enter a specific dungeon, you get no bonus plaques. Continually using the random feature to get the one you want is obviously against the intended use of the tool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiala View Post
    Way to miss the point. It does sound like you're condoning cheating. What I am trying to do is keep those lamers who can't PvP without a premade in a PUG only queue from ever entering the warfront with a premade. It means they're simply incapable of handling the REAL premades who actually want to fight other premades.

    And that is YOUR ONLY excuse. I've yet to see anyone from a premade actually claim they want to fight another premade. Anyone who says otherwise is a flaming LIAR because they don't want balance or a level playing field. They just want to win period.

    How are they any different from pyros who defended pre-nerf GOS ? /sarcasm

    And FYI..I've seen plenty of players from premades try to pug it. And quite a number of them were epic fail because they simply weren't used to operating without healers humping them or handheld via Ventrilo.
    I think it's you who are missing the point. It's not enough that they're trying to refine the system to further reduce the likelihood of premades going against full PUGs. Now you want them to implement a "scramble" feature that can only serve to increase queue times JUST IN CASE the five people from the same shard who queue all at the same time are actually an ungrouped premade trying to bypass the matchmaking system.

    You're trying too hard. What's the difference between a premade and a PUG that coordinates and cooperates with one another? Why should Trion invest all kinds of time and effort into "protecting" the people who don't want to play as part of a team from the people who do? It's not a solo activity. If your full PUG isn't playing as a team, it's not up to Trion to level the playing field for you. It's up to enough people on your team to get sick of losing that they finally evolve some skills and understanding and work with one another to get the job done.

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