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Thread: How much toughness/focus is needed for Port of Scion?

  1. #1
    Sword of Telara
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    Default How much toughness/focus is needed for Port of Scion?

    Since you changed Port of Scion into a PvE game where everyone ignores the enemy completely only to kill enemy mobs/objects, I am curious on how much toughness/focus is needed for Port of Scion now?

    On a more serious note:
    WTF are you thinking?!? Blizzard destroyed AV in the exact same way, didn't any of you see this comming?

    The change with the buff was great and needed, because it was silly as hell before, but now it's even more silly. Just remove the final boss for now until you have managed to come up with something that actually works, and Port of Scion might be somewhat more enjoyable than the PvE Zerg that it currently is.

    I've been in games where there were NO player deaths at all, hardly something I would call PvP.

    If I wanted to PvE I would have used the "Looking for dungeon" tool instead...

  2. #2
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    If the other team can actively interfere with yoru ability to accomplish your goals by fighting you, it is pvp.

    I don't know how the concept can be any clearer than that.

    People claiming such objectives are pve and not pvp are just talking nonsense.

    Defense in AV was a huge part of being successful and I participated in it to great effect all the time.


    Just because an objective is PVE doesn't mean it is not pvp in total. Every objective in every Warfront is PVE by that measure. A sourcestone is an object. So are flags and the fang.

    The pvp goal is always to stop the other team from achieving their game goals. All of these game goals are not pvp, yet all of the warfronts are pvp.

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    When opposite sides ride past eachother so close that they could actually touch a person from the opposing side, ignoring them just to get to a Mob instead to kill it, then no, it's not PvP. It's PvE.

    Just because you can PvP doesn't mean that it's PvP. it's like claiming that all Rifts and outdoor questing is PvP because PvP is a possibility...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    When opposite sides ride past eachother so close that they could actually touch a person from the opposing side, ignoring them just to get to a Mob instead to kill it, then no, it's not PvP. It's PvE.

    Just because you can PvP doesn't mean that it's PvP. it's like claiming that all Rifts and outdoor questing is PvP because PvP is a possibility...
    And if you've got 20 people on each team and all 20 people on each team chose to ignore the 20 people on the other team, what does that tell you about what players want?

    PvP without objectives is pretty lame. The objectives introduce the possibility for strategy as opposed to simply zerg zerg zerg whoever kills the most wins.

    Interesting factoids: The fang in Black Garden? It's not a player. The flags in Codex? Those aren't players. The sourcestones in Whitefall? Not players. We're given objectives in the environment...PvE...that facilitate PvP. After that, what you and your team do with them is up to you.

    The objectives in a warfront create focal points. If people want to go into PS and trust to luck hoping they can throw down more damage on the idols and generals than the other time, fly at it. It's a big risk. And there's nothing stopping you from breaking off from the pack and going to stir up trouble in the other raid group when they're busy with the boss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    On a more serious note:
    WTF are you thinking?!?
    "WTF" is never a "serious" note.

    On a more serious note:

    Why so serious? (that's a clown)
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    PvP without objectives is pretty lame. The objectives introduce the possibility for strategy as opposed to simply zerg zerg zerg whoever kills the most wins.
    I totally agree, I hate PvP without any objective, and I even loved the old orignal AV, even thou it could take more than a day to complete. Mindless zerging without any reason to why is both stupid and boring.

    But when everyone ignores everyone else in a "warfront" just to kill a mob, then something is seriously wrong.

    Sure, the Ports today have been alot better, with most of them actually taking the full duration and lots of clashes all over the place, so perhaps it will work out well anyway.

    I would love to see more WFs simillar to what GW has to offer with alot more objectives.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara NatashaK's Avatar
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    I haven't seen this. It's still two zergs fighting on the bridge with the winner decided by AoE damage vs AoE healing.

    Warfronts are chess matches. And while I'm sure Gary Kasparov sits at the end of the match saying "I could have owned you in 30 minutes but I spent an hour just farming all your pawns" us lesser folks actually have to play to win.

    If it's really just a race to the finish, followed by a dps race, then it's stupid. But I remember AV having strategy where after 5 matches of doing the same thing, all of a sudden you'd decide to turtle Bal and throw the opponents whole game plan off. As lond as there's no one winning strategy and you have to keep adapting and trying to out think each other, it's a great game. And I dont care if no one dies the whole match as long as it can still be fresh and different.

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    Had a few good runs in PS today. I think one of them involved killing the enemy's boss. The last one involved losing because most of our team spent the match at the bridge. Which is fine...I guess...if they would have actually done something useful when the enemy wasn't attacking the bridge, like call out the enemy on their way to ourIdol, or stop the enemy from running shards, or stop the enemy from gang beating our own shard runners. But they didn't. They just sat there waiting for people to fight.

    We could have won, too. Towards the end of the match I was trying to get people over to the Planar Flux (four of us had already managed to destroy the capacitor). We had 880 points when I called them over. Defiants had just over 900. They more or less ignored me. We lost 1000-910.

    The thing is, before these changes I can guarantee you that the majority of players had no idea what the idols/planar structures were for or what benefit there was to destroying them. They had no idea what Ithuluk the Maimed was good for (probably didn't even know where he was.) I've even encountered people who think that holding the bridge earns points.

    Now the map is a little more dynamic. I just find it funny that all it took to open it up and get people thinking was removing the shard buff and, to a lesser extent, not spawning the bridge flag for the first minute.

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    Instead of a npc boss, let one player get randomly chosen to get Boss stats, and be tied to the same area teh bosses are now, and unable to engage enemies until they are attacked.

    Then it can be a pvp boss!

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    Quote Originally Posted by aeio View Post
    If the other team can actively interfere with yoru ability to accomplish your goals by fighting you, it is pvp.

    I don't know how the concept can be any clearer than that.

    People claiming such objectives are pve and not pvp are just talking nonsense.

    Defense in AV was a huge part of being successful and I participated in it to great effect all the time.


    Just because an objective is PVE doesn't mean it is not pvp in total. Every objective in every Warfront is PVE by that measure. A sourcestone is an object. So are flags and the fang.

    The pvp goal is always to stop the other team from achieving their game goals. All of these game goals are not pvp, yet all of the warfronts are pvp.
    A lot of people thinks that pvp is just locking horns with the other ram and headbutt till one is too stunned or start crying...
    the concept of target-driven fight or just of teamplay is completely wasted on them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    When opposite sides ride past eachother so close that they could actually touch a person from the opposing side, ignoring them just to get to a Mob instead to kill it, then no, it's not PvP. It's PvE.

    Just because you can PvP doesn't mean that it's PvP. it's like claiming that all Rifts and outdoor questing is PvP because PvP is a possibility...
    its a pvp where people _CHOSE_ to not to fight.
    the game gives you the means to fight, you chose what you want.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruizo View Post
    its a pvp where people _CHOSE_ to not to fight.
    the game gives you the means to fight, you chose what you want.
    It's very poor design if the best/fastest way to accomplish what you call "PvP" is to ignore all enemies and hit a mob...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    It's very poor design if the best/fastest way to accomplish what you call "PvP" is to ignore all enemies and hit a mob...
    I've been in plenty of Scions like these. It's a clear sign of a weak side if you allow that side to attack your commander unhindered. It's a sign of weakness to even allow them to hit the idols.

    After the recent changes I've played Scions the way you describe them, but I've also played Scions where both sides were clashing in the middle, none giving enough ground to the other and no opening to their idols. Strugglers attacking the idols? Kill them and heal the idol. The full force attacking the idol? Going fool force on them and roll them back, having the advantage of both friendly NPCs and the spawn point closer.

    In my opinion, removing the shard buff was necessary. What perhaps is necessary is to give a bit more incentive for people to play defensively, because offensively is right now a bit too tempting. Perhaps if say the defiants kill an idol, their own receives a defensive buff. That way, whoever side does not protect their own idols are risking needing more time to down the opposing ones and thus reaching the boss without his damage reduction buff.

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    But if the fastest most efficient way to do PS is to rush and ignore all enemies, that is what it will end out to become in the long run, and then it IS a bad design move and needs to be changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    But if the fastest most efficient way to do PS is to rush and ignore all enemies, that is what it will end out to become in the long run, and then it IS a bad design move and needs to be changed.
    You don't need a tons of people to kill an idol. You do however need most of them to stop the attackers into their tracks. All bunched up close to the idol make for some very juicy targets, more so than the bridge. You usually also have tons of vantage points to attack them from, especially as Guardian.

    If your side is getting rushed to the boss all the time, maybe it's time to consider alternative strategies for a change. A good deal of those people rushing do it in non optimal PvP specs but who can dish tons of damage. Wipe them once and they'll be more manageable once they start respawning in different intervals.

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