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Thread: While you're working out the mechanics of the seperate solo and group queues....

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default While you're working out the mechanics of the seperate solo and group queues....

    Do you think you could develop a system for the solo queue that attempts to allocate an even 25% of each archtype into the warfronts? Like the system Bioware is creating for SW:TOR warfronts.


    Clerics are incredibly necessary in Rift pvp, they are a powerful force multiplier, with them the game changes immensley, without them and against a team that has them it becomes damn near impossible.

    So much of the warfronts outcome currently hinges on whether your side has a cleric or not, atleast attempting to allocate 1 cleric per group in warfronts would help to create some excellent warfronts experiences. Rather than the pot luck system we have currently.


    This sort of stuff is out of control, there's no winning against that kinda ranged AE damage and healing power

  2. #2
    Rift Master GriffonHawke's Avatar
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    I agree COMPLETELY.


    I just had to lose a black garden because in a 10v10 my team had 9 mages and the other team had 7 clerics.


    With 6 shards, im sure there are more than enough people queueing for you to be able to attempt to put an equal amount of each class. Especially since your starting to seperate premades from pugs.

  3. #3
    Ascendant
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    This game could take a page out of Global Agenda's book.

    You can only queue in pairs and you have a balance of each of the 4 classes. If only 4 medics have signed up you get 2 each. 80% of the games I play in this go to Overtime. Says a lot.

    Now there needs to be a premade queue, but queueing in pairs or 3's would make a huge difference for most people.

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara
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    That's the luck of the draw when you pug. If you want heals/dps/cc on your team, start a premade.

  5. #5
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    The more picky you are about group composition, the longer the queues.

    It's just that simple.

    Right now, regardless of what the matchmaking system is or isn't trying to do, you're getting sent in with whoever is queued when there's enough people on both side to fill the minimum group size.

    If you're in a shard cluster where you're already looking at potentially lengthy queues, being picky about this or that just means those queues are going to get longer. And it largely defeats the purpose of merge wargroups to reduce queue times if you then add in superfluous criteria.

    The state of PvP isn't ideal at times. I have my own gripes and kvetches about how things are going, but one thing holds true: no matter what Trion does, people are going to persist in looking elsewhere to find something or someone to blame for why they lose instead of looking at what they could have done better themselves. No change to callings, souls, matchmaking systems, or maps is going to change that.

  6. #6
    Rift Master GriffonHawke's Avatar
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    Just finished losing a whitefall steppes with 15 players and absolutely NO I mean ZERO clerics.


    Great...

    I think I'd rather wait 5 minutes longer for a queue than spend 20 minutes losing because we have no healers.
    Last edited by GriffonHawke; 05-28-2011 at 06:35 PM.

  7. #7
    Rift Master Catalysts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaekal View Post
    Do you think you could develop a system for the solo queue that attempts to allocate an even 25% of each archtype into the warfronts? Like the system Bioware is creating for SW:TOR warfronts.


    Clerics are incredibly necessary in Rift pvp, they are a powerful force multiplier, with them the game changes immensley, without them and against a team that has them it becomes damn near impossible.

    So much of the warfronts outcome currently hinges on whether your side has a cleric or not, atleast attempting to allocate 1 cleric per group in warfronts would help to create some excellent warfronts experiences. Rather than the pot luck system we have currently.


    This sort of stuff is out of control, there's no winning against that kinda ranged AE damage and healing power
    Sadly unless they start locking the ability to swap your souls upon joining the warfront no system like this could be put into place.

    Just because someone is healing in a WF at the start dosen't mean they will stay that spec, nor does it mean a DPS wont swap to a heal spec. While queueing up that cleric and his friend may have been duo'ing and such and he wants to DPS in a WF.

    Clerics and Mages, even Rogues to an extent would exploit the system without locking souls, by swapping to the most needed/lacking spec in a WF just so they could swap after getting in, to the one they actualy want to play.

    While it would be great in theory to have something like what you suggest in effect, actual implamentation in a game like Rift would require so much flexibility to be removed that you may as well have just rolled a premade to begin with so at least going into the warfront all those participating in it were actualy playing something they wanted to and were good at, not just whatever spec actually let them bypass the hour long queue so they could have some pvp.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Catalysts; 05-28-2011 at 06:48 PM.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    IMO you're missing the bigger picture here. Class composition is not the issue.

    What should be done is to balance out clerics and not make them the gods that decide the outcome of pvp in every match. Every class should be able to influence a match equally to the extent that having a large concentration of any one class should not be much of a handicap if at all.

    As it is, no other calling currently has as much influence as the cleric. Just 1 or 2 clerics throwing out obscene amounts of heals/shields can decide the match in 20v20 situations, moreso than dps throwing out the same or greater amount of damage. Sounds fair? Add to that you need a warrior (lingering wounds) AND a rogue (eradicate) to take down a well-played cleric and one cant help but fall on their knees in the presence of the almighty cleric.

    WFs != heal warz.
    Last edited by Ironhart; 05-28-2011 at 07:33 PM.

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhart View Post
    IMO you're missing the bigger picture here. Class composition is not the issue.
    Sadly, the main issue is that people don't know how to focus fire the healers down. They run in, tab target, and start fighting.

    You can't fix stupid with a new queuing system. That's the big picture.
    Last edited by Stevoli; 05-28-2011 at 09:50 PM.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevoli View Post
    Sadly, the main issue is that people don't know how to focus fire the healers down. They run in, tab target, and start fighting.

    You can't fix stupid with a new queuing system. That's the big picture.
    Even in premades, healers still carry much more influence than they should. Focusing down -any- target that has been given damage mitigation buffs is an exercise in futility. Lets not also forget that heals have a 35m range, so good luck even reaching them.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    I think I'd rather wait 5 minutes longer for a queue than spend 20 minutes losing because we have no healers.
    I agree with this concept. I'd rather have a longer queue for a balanced pug than lose because of lame group makeup.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelorean View Post
    I agree with this concept. I'd rather have a longer queue for a balanced pug than lose because of lame group makeup.
    You say that now, when we all know from the LFD system's current issues that if people have to wait beyond a certain amount of time, they're not going to be happy. People make all these statements now just to get what they want but when push comes to shove and they get what they ask for...including the bad with the good...they still complain.

    So what are we asking for here? PUGs split from premades, an option to queue in "balanced" groups only, and a generic solo queue option? You'd rather not play for an hour than just go in, learn how to play better, and at least earn some favor/prestige? I don't think you'd accept that.

    Sometimes people would benefit from getting their heads out of the clouds and thinking things through a little more. And as always, be careful what you wish for. In this case, heaven forbid you should get it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelorean View Post
    I agree with this concept. I'd rather have a longer queue for a balanced pug than lose because of lame group makeup.
    if you think for a minute that 5 minutes is all you will ahve to wait your insane, the amount of people who play healing specs compared to dps specs is always been and always will be crazy huge, and then the amount of healers who like pvp are even less, if you tried to force a spec specific warfront in a game liek this you would maybe at best see double the q tiems for your server on a best case scenario, worst case you would see hour long waits, also to the guy who wanted to limit people to only q-ing in pairs, this would not solve anything, me and my guidl would just time our qs so we would usually get in the same time, we want to q together to play together and use our communication to beat the other team. for those who do not want to make a group with friends then i am sorry, i dont know how many times this has been brought up but seriously make your own pre made, i would rather trion spend its time adding more content and fixing things that are wrong instead of catering to all these soloists who would rather whine than make a group for themselves. If i can make a PVP centric guild on a pve RP server with 20+ pvpers i am positive that you can find people on your server that will help you for pre mades of your own. if you still chose not to form your own premade then since you are not motivated enough to do it then you get to deal with the consequence. I want you to form your own premade since that will make my life mroe fun, i want you to learn team dynamics , i want you to be able to give me a good fight. please do not screw up q times with craziness such as seperate qs or limiting teams, i want to be able to q as a raid so all of my guidl can PVP together. because by nature of an MMO it is encouraged to team with others, raid with others. and for the love of all that is good, dont try and think that this is becasue i want to steam roll over pugs, this is because i want you to group up with folks and fight me in an even match. dont make trion implement some crazy q seperation so it will do it for you. meet soem friends and pvp with them, if you want to solo, play a console game


    whoever took my name on these forums...grrrrrr

  14. #14
    Rift Master Catalysts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    Sometimes people would benefit from getting their heads out of the clouds and thinking things through a little more. And as always, be careful what you wish for. In this case, heaven forbid you should get it.
    Know what would be absolutely amazing about people getting their heads out of the clouds? They might see the big picture, like the one I pointed out back on page 1.

    Still though it is funny to sit and watch on here now, as I did in WoW, people crying because the other people in the game don't all cater to them and play how they want.

    To those wanting this impossible without massive sacrifice "balance queue" nonsense. How bout you take a step in balancing it yourselves and stepping up to the plate and doing what you expect everyone else to do for you, roll a healer or supporter, spec to carry in BG or run shards in WS/PS. When your sitting on your cleric in a WF DPSing stop *****ing because the other cleric in there isn't healing you (I've actualy seen that happen, it was hilarious, other cleric was DPSing also).

    Seriously, take a long hard think about what you're asking and what would have to be done to insure a system like this would work, and still pop WF's in an even remotely viable amount of time.

    Cheers.

  15. #15
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    I mentioned it in another thread, I spent 10+ wf's last night as a single mage with 4 or 5 rogues every time. Unfortunately it was not a balanced group of rogues, no bards or anything. And we got rolled over and over, essentially only because the other side had a much better balance of classes and roles.

    That being said I am wary of creating such a system for pvp for a lot of reasons. For one it might clog up queues, and for another, sometimes it is fun to win with weird combos.

    I agree with Catalyst too.. People who complain that nobody is a healer in a WF should just be quiet. If you ever say that and you are not actively playing a healer at that moment you should slap yourself in your own face.

    Sometimes I am frustrated by the lack of healers, but I certainly would not demand or berate other people for doing something I am not doing. That is just weird, and socially abnormal.
    Last edited by aeio; 05-29-2011 at 05:03 AM.

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