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Thread: Trion, Stop using Pvers as fodder for your PvP!

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Trion, Stop using Pvers as fodder for your PvP!

    Trion has gone too far with their changes to the PvP guild dailies. Our new guild is only level 1 and we got a daily where we have to kill 550 players in PvP. Five Hundred and Fifty! A level 1 quest! Explain yourself Trion, as far as I know, the original quests were like "kill 50 players" and these were for level 4 or 5 guilds. Not only did you make it a lot harder for new guilds to level up, but unlike most of the trash PvP which could be avoided, guild dailies cannot, forcing Pvers to Pvp more then neccessary.

    We all know how PvP in mmos works. Pvpers need PvE fodder to get free kills and farm favor/prestige so they can get PvP gear and feel great about themselves, knowing the battles were always in their favor from the beginning. A lot of trolls on this forum are going to deny this and flame me, and feel free to do so to keep this thread bumped long enough for the guild quests to be fixed.

    The point is that it's safe to say most PvE guilds don't care about doing warfronts, maybe put in some meaningful world PvP or RvR and we'll talk. Until then forcing guilds with the minimum number of players to do PvP quests that take 11x longer to complete as a band aid to supplement your trash unbalanced warfronts is wrong.

    In summary, we're not asking Trion to change how PvP works, we don't care, we just want to keep extensive PvPing optional for PvE guilds in PvE servers. Isn't that fair? Also why did they make this ridiculous change in the first place? Literally nobody in the forums where complaining that the guild quests weren't grindy enough.
    Last edited by Bigbadwolf; 05-13-2011 at 05:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Plane Walker
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    That's half the kill count I generate per day, but I guess I more or less only PvP.

    Correction, that amount was pre 1.2. Now it's a lot easier to get kill count scores since the radius is huge.
    Last edited by Xasapis; 05-13-2011 at 05:02 AM.

  3. #3
    aux
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    550 is maybe like 20 warfronts. If every guild member does just one... one of the easiest guild quests.

    And if you don't want to PvP, well, don't PvP. The PvP dailies are there for PvPers.
    I'm so BORED

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    550 is maybe like 20 warfronts. If every guild member does just one... one of the easiest guild quests.

    And if you don't want to PvP, well, don't PvP. The PvP dailies are there for PvPers.
    I understand that you guys are trying to help and I respect that.
    I'm asking you guys for a little respect in return to read my post and understand where I'm coming from.

    We are a PvE guild NOT PvP, we are NOT going to get even less than half our members doing these PvP guild dailies which are NOT optional for guild progression. Please don't argue how easy it is for you, the point is that it's 11x harder then it was before, which is an insane increase, and completely unfair for new guilds with no PvP perks compared to established guilds with more players and more perks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf View Post
    doing these PvP guild dailies which are NOT optional for guild progression.
    I don't understand this, guild progression doesn't stop simply if you don't do the PVP quest, does it?

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Default Clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin View Post
    I don't understand this, guild progression doesn't stop simply if you don't do the PVP quest, does it?
    Yes, sometimes when you complete all the Rifts and dungeon quests, the only quests you have left are PvP ones which much be completed to get the next level and thus the next set of guild dailies.

    They did add a new feature where u can do crafting dailies to get guild points but all guilds even the level 7+ guilds have access to that so I didn't count it.

    The point is that these PvP dailies are literally 1/3rd of all the guild dailies in the game. So in terms of progression, older more established guilds might be able to get away with avoiding it, but new guilds cannot.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf View Post
    Yes, sometimes when you complete all the Rifts and dungeon quests, the only quests you have left are PvP ones which much be completed to get the next level and thus the next set of guild dailies.
    Oh I see, that sucks, my guild doesn't PVP at all and don't enjoy farming instances endlessly, seems our progression is going to grind to a halt then.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker The Grixxitt's Avatar
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    Hehe.....carebears.....delicious....

    Honestly though, the kills for quests don't actually count Killing Blows, it counts pretty much everyone you damaged the slightest bit who happened to die.

    So, if you choose to do the PvP dailies, and roll an AE class, you could easily get that in 10 WF or less. Just do Black Garden, as people tend to cluster together, and its over in a few minutes each time (since you hate it so much, you'll likely need to take breaks regularly).

    Cheers
    This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
    My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Grixxitt View Post
    Hehe.....carebears.....delicious....

    Honestly though, the kills for quests don't actually count Killing Blows, it counts pretty much everyone you damaged the slightest bit who happened to die.

    So, if you choose to do the PvP dailies, and roll an AE class, you could easily get that in 10 WF or less. Just do Black Garden, as people tend to cluster together, and its over in a few minutes each time (since you hate it so much, you'll likely need to take breaks regularly).

    Cheers
    Okay I was going to respond to this post, then I looked at your picture and saw that you are a troll, and that you happy Pvers are getting screwed over with this change.

    So is this how it's going to be Trion? Your catering to trolls now?

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara
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    While I agree in general that stretching content via increased grinds is not what I was hoping for but that is what we got for 1.2 however there are more different guild quests now (artifact gathering for example) so just donīt do the pvp quest?

    Its not like the guild perks are a must have anyway and if you want to cry about something as a pve player it should be the reduced plaques plus more expensive items coupled with little to no purple drops from the bosses anymore... THAT is stretching content and will effect you far more then the few guildlevels over a month you will lose because you donīt do the pvp guild quest...
    Last edited by Balduran; 05-13-2011 at 06:50 AM.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker The Grixxitt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf View Post
    Okay I was going to respond to this post, then I looked at your picture and saw that you are a troll, and that you happy Pvers are getting screwed over with this change.

    So is this how it's going to be Trion? Your catering to trolls now?
    O come on, its a goblin in a carebear costume, how do you not get the irony?

    And here I was trying to be helpful.
    I'm hurt, really.
    This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
    My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf View Post
    I understand that you guys are trying to help and I respect that.
    I'm asking you guys for a little respect in return to read my post and understand where I'm coming from.

    We are a PvE guild NOT PvP, we are NOT going to get even less than half our members doing these PvP guild dailies which are NOT optional for guild progression. Please don't argue how easy it is for you, the point is that it's 11x harder then it was before, which is an insane increase, and completely unfair for new guilds with no PvP perks compared to established guilds with more players and more perks.
    Um excuse me, why do we have to respect you when you spout random BS like:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf View Post

    We all know how PvP in mmos works. Pvpers need PvE fodder to get free kills and farm favor/prestige so they can get PvP gear and feel great about themselves, knowing the battles were always in their favor from the beginning. .
    Hey guess what, PvE is for scrubs that cant press more than one button every 4 seconds without getting confused and love to be able to read exactly whats going to happen and how to survive certain stages and how to win. (of course if you're a faceroll pyro its the same) but pvpers like to pvp other pvpers, l2logic.
    19d

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balduran View Post
    While I agree in general that stretching content via increased grinds is not what I was hoping for but that is what we got for 1.2 however there are more different guild quests now (artifact gathering for example) so just donīt do the pvp quest?

    Its not like the guild perks are a must have anyway and if you want to cry about something as a pve player it should be the reduced plaques plus more expensive items coupled with little to no purple drops from the bosses anymore... THAT is stretching content and will effect you far more then the few guildlevels over a month you will lose because you donīt do the pvp guild quest...
    Yes we all here have played mmos before and saw the change to plaques and gear coming. Forcing PvE players to grind more PvE content is bad, but forcing PvE players to run more of their trash PvP content is unforgivable.

    You guys trying to be helpful and giving out tips to complete the daily faster are appreciated but please stop. The point of this thread is not to encourage PvErs to do more PvP, the point is to find out why Trion made this change in the first place.

    From glancing at this forum, PvPers don't want Pvers in their groups anyway, and Pvers don't want to have to PvP more than necessary. Absolutely neither group was complaining that the PvP guild dailies weren't grindy enough so why make them take 11x longer then before?

    All it's doing is hurting players that enjoy the game.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf View Post
    I understand that you guys are trying to help and I respect that.
    I'm asking you guys for a little respect in return to read my post and understand where I'm coming from.

    We are a PvE guild NOT PvP, we are NOT going to get even less than half our members doing these PvP guild dailies which are NOT optional for guild progression. Please don't argue how easy it is for you, the point is that it's 11x harder then it was before, which is an insane increase, and completely unfair for new guilds with no PvP perks compared to established guilds with more players and more perks.
    Every guild I've been in (on a PvE shard) either picks up the PvP dailies and then folks go run a few warfronts to get them done, or they skip the PvP dailies and nobody cares that they skipped it.

    Average kills/player in a warfront where you're not getting steamrolled works out to between 30-50. Ten people in your guild running two warfronts each will have your daily knocked out in an hour per player.

    This may come as a surprise, but people on PvE shards often do like to PvP. Many of them are quite good at it.

    It's not "11x harder than it was before". They changed how the kills increment the quest. It's easier now. PvP perks aren't game breaking. They're nice, but they aren't going to make or break you in PvP.

    If you and the rest of your guildies don't want to PvP, don't take the PvP quests. PvE shard doesn't mean all things to the exclusion of PvP. It just means open world PvP is not an unavoidable component of the ruleset. That's all.

  15. #15
    Telaran Wraught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf View Post
    Yes we all here have played mmos before and saw the change to plaques and gear coming. Forcing PvE players to grind more PvE content is bad, but forcing PvE players to run more of their trash PvP content is unforgivable.

    You guys trying to be helpful and giving out tips to complete the daily faster are appreciated but please stop. The point of this thread is not to encourage PvErs to do more PvP, the point is to find out why Trion made this change in the first place.

    From glancing at this forum, PvPers don't want Pvers in their groups anyway, and Pvers don't want to have to PvP more than necessary. Absolutely neither group was complaining that the PvP guild dailies weren't grindy enough so why make them take 11x longer then before?

    All it's doing is hurting players that enjoy the game.
    My guild doesn't pve. You say that only 1/3 of the dailys are pvp. How is that fair to me? In response to what YOU want...How about we meet in the middle and make it 50/50?

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