Purge Timeline

[VirusDancer]

5s:

MM 10
Infil 1
VK 3
Inq 2
AM 3
Nec 1
Arc 2 from up to 10 players

10s:

MM 20
Nec 2
Arc 5 from up to 10 players

15s:

MM 30
Inq 4
Nec 3
Arc 7 from up to 10 players

20s:

MM 40
VK 6
Nec 4
Arc 10 from up to 10 players

25s:

MM 50
Inq 6
Nec 5
Arc 12 from up to 10 players

30s:

MM 60
Nec 6
Arc 15 from up to 10 players

35s:

MM 70
Infil 2
Inq 8
AM 6
Nec 7
Arc 17 from up to 10 players

Note on the Archon Purging Flames - it is a 2s cast, can be interrupted.

So looking at this...what numbers stand out? Yep, the Infil purge was garbage - is garbage. The MM purge is insane. That is probably the first thing that stands out, right?

26 pts Archon - 10 pts Archmage - 6 pts Necromancer will get you 30 purges in that timeframe (with 17 of them on up to 10 players).

Sure, the 70 MM is still insane. But 30 Mage purges compared to 8 Cleric and 6 Warrior...is still seeing a therapist at least a few days a week. Okay, you can cut down on some of the Archon purges since it is a 2 second cast. Say you just go with Degeneration and Consumption - that is 13 purges compared to 8 and 6.

Yes, Eradicate is a definite problem...but it is not the only problem with purges that was introduced in 1.2.

Much like the heavy handed approach they took with nerfing Sabs, VKs, Champs, etc in the past - much like the heavy handed approach they took with buffing Pyros - much like the heavy handed approach they took with CC/Snares... yep, purges are just another example of the heavy handed approach that Trion has taken with things since the headstart.

Bring back the guys that tweaked things during the betas and fire the guys that have been drinking on the job since the headstart...

...just saying.

[kysulli]

Your timeline for marksman is wrong. A 40 energy ability is not spammable on a 1 second GCD after the first 3 shots. After 3 shots the MM will be energy starved like rogues are for all of their abilities.

It is still a big number, but you are exaggerating.

[Saboth]

Bring back the guys that tweaked things during the betas and fire the guys that have been drinking on the job since the headstart...

...just saying.

At 1 hour, they have purged 7,200 buffs!

If the average person plays 4 hours in a night, that 28,800 buffs!

And that's just one MM. Since every game now has at least 5 of them popping out of the OP'd woodwork, and if they all played the same WF, they'd purge 144,000 buffs a night. Ridiculous.

If they all played every day in a month, that is 4,464,000 buffs a month, just from 5 guys.

[Tugrath]

The other side of this is buff reapply time.

3s: Everyone - 2

6s: Everyone - 4

...

15s: Everyone - 10

...

35s: Everyone ~ 23

Buff application time is definitely a problem for every purge skill except eradicate.

[Uiin]

I don't understand what this timeline: it seems to include both purges (offensive) and cleanses (defensive). I haven't actually been in PvP much since 1.2 but it seems like MM was heavily buffed and the fact the other classes, not just MM can remove vital buffs (Chloro/Justicar/VK) is too powerful in PvP.

[VirusDancer]

Your timeline for marksman is wrong. A 40 energy ability is not spammable on a 1 second GCD after the first 3 shots. After 3 shots the MM will be energy starved like rogues are for all of their abilities.

It is still a big number, but you are exaggerating.

Eradicate is a 20 Energy ability. Rogues regen 20 Energy/second. It is spammable.

[VirusDancer]

The point of the thread is not to complain specifically about Eradicate - it is just using Eradicate as an example, Degeneration as an example - of the somewhat blind and heavy handed approach that Trion has taken since the headstart in comparison to the tweaking that they did during the betas.

Somebody posted a link to a Gersh comment on the differences between Hot Fixes and Balance Passes... I guess it is a case that at some point they might actually do a Balance Pass instead of the Blind Fixes with wrecking balls they have been doing.

[kysulli]

Ahh, I must be confusing it with the interrupt then.

[Macrocosm93]

5s:
Infil 1
VK 3
Inq 2
AM 3
Nec 1
Arc 2 from up to 10 players[/INDENT]10s:

Nec 2
Arc 5 from up to 10 players

15s:

Inq 4
Nec 3
Arc 7 from up to 10 players

20s:

VK 6
Nec 4
Arc 10 from up to 10 players

25s:

Inq 6
Nec 5
Arc 12 from up to 10 players

30s:

Nec 6
Arc 15 from up to 10 players

35s:

Infil 2
Inq 8
AM 6
Nec 7
Arc 17 from up to 10 players

And in the meantime they are doing other things.
Whereas an MM spamming eradicate is doing nothing else.

[Saboth]

I don't understand what this timeline: it seems to include both purges (offensive) and cleanses (defensive). I haven't actually been in PvP much since 1.2 but it seems like MM was heavily buffed and the fact the other classes, not just MM can remove vital buffs (Chloro/Justicar/VK) is too powerful in PvP.

That's pretty much the core problem with pvp in this game. They wanted everyone to have CC. Then they wanted different specs to have it, so you'd end up with classes with 2-3 CC, and then they threw in AOE CC (mass fear, mass silence, mass stuns), etc., and you ended up with something ridiculous. WAY too much CC.

Next up they apparently felt every class should have dispels, and every class should have healing debuffs.

Now..CC, dispel and healing debuffs are POWERFUL abilities. They should have long cooldowns, not be spammable, and of course not every class should have them. These are utility abilities. Heavy DPS and range shouldn't have them. That's why Dominator worked...you had to give up pretty much all DPS in order to play out their awesome support/CC abilities. So...I guess we'll go through a phase where no one has buffs and healing is useless and every fight is straight up : "who has the most range dps classes on their team wins" phase.

I can only feel for warriors at this point.

[ShalarLight]

At 1 hour, they have purged 7,200 buffs!

If the average person plays 4 hours in a night, that 28,800 buffs!

And that's just one MM. Since every game now has at least 5 of them popping out of the OP'd woodwork, and if they all played the same WF, they'd purge 144,000 buffs a night. Ridiculous.

If they all played every day in a month, that is 4,464,000 buffs a month, just from 5 guys.

nice. lol.

[Jeffreys]

Cabalsit Sigil of Woe, If I'm not mistaken, removes 21 buffs from 7 targets max every 45 seconds.

[Macrocosm93]

ITT hypothetical situations that have no bearing on actual gameplay.

[Saboth]

Cabalsit Sigil of Woe, If I'm not mistaken, removes 21 buffs from 7 targets max every 45 seconds.

Nope, because their sigil and lurking decay got purged by an mm!

/whoop whoop whoop (curly from 3 stooges sound).

[VirusDancer]

And in the meantime they are doing other things.
Whereas an MM spamming eradicate is doing nothing else.

That is not true. Just because the MM can spam it, does not mean that they are. And this is probably part of the fail reasoning that Trion used when implementing it.

VK purges 3 buff and then continues to do other things for 15s. The target of the purge will likely reapply buffs and continue to do other things until purged again.

MM purges 2 buffs. Target may attempt to reapply a buff (excluding those on CDs which they cannot). The MM will purge again. If the target (with questionable IQ) continues to attempt to buff while the MM is purging - then the target is not doing anything else, are they? Target will likely realize it is fruitless to attempt to reapply buffs. If the MM continues to use Eradicate on a target with no buffs...er...that questionable IQ thing comes into play. The MM is free to DPS on that target or find another target to purge.

For those that claim the MM is not the highest DPS build - it is not a DPS epeen contest. Against a target that is doing less damage, taking more damage, healing less, taking less healing - well, they are generally easier to kill and less a threat to your team. Yep... TEAM. The MM creates the environment where your team not only requires less damage to kill players on the opposing team but also that your healers have to do less healing.