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Thread: Diminishing Returns Should Not Effect Snares

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Diminishing Returns Should Not Effect Snares

    That is just silly. Snares are fine, classes and playstyles are built on having a permanent snare on someone.

    Diminishing returns are needed to address CC and roots. Snares are not CC, and should not be treated in the same way.

    I worry the diminshing returns are going to be too much on too long a reset timer, this might work out fine for CC and even roots, but its going to be silly with snares.

  2. #2
    Sez
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    Peeling, or removing a melee from a healer/caster is usually done through a CC of some kind.

    If you peel a warrior off a caster by snaring him, you essentially controlled his actions by forcing him to respond to your snare.

    Thus, a snare is a CC.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyRider View Post
    That is just silly. Snares are fine, classes and playstyles are built on having a permanent snare on someone.

    Diminishing returns are needed to address CC and roots. Snares are not CC, and should not be treated in the same way.

    I worry the diminshing returns are going to be too much on too long a reset timer, this might work out fine for CC and even roots, but its going to be silly with snares.
    Nah, don't agree. I've got a talent for a snare removal. I also have 2 dispels. They are all pretty much useless when every class can just spam snares over and over, no strategy.

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    Rift Disciple Chiron101's Avatar
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    I did not know this and you sir have my support.

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    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Sorry, if you were planning on using CC, or doing anything besides crushing your "dps" macro, you are playing the wrong game, poorly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShalarLight View Post
    Sorry, if you were planning on using CC, or doing anything besides crushing your "dps" macro, you are playing the wrong game, poorly.
    They just put too much cc and can't find another way to handle it but almost completely remove it.

    Taking back break free to 1:30 didnt work, but let's just try to use some common sense to figure out 1 minute 30 seconds is not a good counter vs something that is being thown at someone every 5 seconds.

    If they tested the game in say a 10v10 scenario, or had people test it with them, they wouldn't have these problems.

    i'm not exactly sure how they are doing thier testing whether its using pvp weapons in pve and they find things dont kill mobs like they wanted them too or what.
    Last edited by Dominmatric; 05-04-2011 at 12:20 PM.
    TL;DR
    Switching to a different profession is no different than starting a new role at 50, Easily learned. Might as well start at Rank 1 PvP on PvP servers.


    Also, the tab targeting needs to be fixed with two things.
    1.) It has no real selected cycle through the enemies in los, it goes randomly through them, it also prioritizes pets.
    2.)It will sometimes tab through, say, 2 pets 6 times (meaning three rotations for two pets) while enemies that are players are in los, it will do this for player targets too (targeting is random with no kind of tab rythm/cycle/order to go through almost full teams of enemies in los). Give players numbers before their names depending on where they are located at in their raid, and let all people know and see these numbers, and tab cycles through those numbers in order to all enemies in range. Then pets if no players are in range.
    3.)I also think minor obstructions that shouldn't, do play a role in who you can tab target, which adds up with the previous problems making it become complicated to target at times.
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ght=imageshack

    Thank you for pretty much fixing the nearest target button, it's noticeable.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyRider View Post

    Diminishing returns are needed to address CC and roots. Snares are not CC, and should not be treated in the same way.
    snare: a: (1) : a contrivance often consisting of a noose for entangling birds or mammals (2) : trap,
    b: (1) : something by which one is entangled, involved in difficulties, or impeded (2) : something deceptively attractive

    crowd control: the activity of managing or exerting control over something

    Thus a snare is a crowd control mechanism.

  8. #8
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    Snare should not be affected by DR. Because it doesn't make it so you are not allowed to do anything. You are simply slowed in run speed, that is the only affect.

    You can still fight while snared. With other forms of CC you can not fight.

    The problem with CC is that you get spammed with it, you can take damage while under the effect, and you can not fight back.

    Snares are not part of the problem period.

    But hey, if you want to make it so you will never have a chance against me when I kite, by all means go ahead. There won't be any DR on my run speed bonuses.
    Last edited by perlfreak; 05-04-2011 at 12:28 PM.

  9. #9
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    Agreed. These changes will be a massive failure :/

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyRider View Post
    That is just silly. Snares are fine, classes and playstyles are built on having a permanent snare on someone.

    Diminishing returns are needed to address CC and roots. Snares are not CC, and should not be treated in the same way.

    I worry the diminshing returns are going to be too much on too long a reset timer, this might work out fine for CC and even roots, but its going to be silly with snares.
    I agree 100%.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Peeling, or removing a melee from a healer/caster is usually done through a CC of some kind.

    If you peel a warrior off a caster by snaring him, you essentially controlled his actions by forcing him to respond to your snare.

    Thus, a snare is a CC.
    K, with that logic, switching to a warrior who is on your healer and blowing dps cooldowns you force the warrior to respond to your damage, thus damage is a cc and should have diminishing returns....

    Snares are a way to kite or stay on target. No other game puts snares on dr, and for good reason.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by perlfreak View Post
    Snare should not be affected by DR. Because it doesn't make it so you are not allowed to do anything. You are simply slowed in run speed, that is the only affect.

    You can still fight while snared. With other forms of CC you can not fight.

    The problem with CC is that you get spammed with it, you can take damage while under the effect, and you can not fight back.

    Snares are not part of the problem period.

    But hey, if you want to make it so you will never have a chance against me when I kite, by all means go ahead. There won't be any DR on my run speed bonuses.
    Completely agree.

    With these changes to snare mechanics, what's going to stop Marksman rogues (myself) from running rampant in warfronts?

    I can just imagine the possible scenario's playing out. Ex: Assassin Rogue A stunes Kanyewest. Kanyewest uses Break Free and has 5 seconds of CC immunity which he uses to place Twilight Force on Rogue A, slowing his movement speed for 6 seconds. While Kanyewest runs away, Rogue A uses Slip Away, and reopens with a jagged strike (no smart rogue would open with another stun at this point as it would only afford him 2 seconds of stun and kick in the control DR) and a malicious strike, slowing Kanyewest for 8 seconds. Kanyewest uses On The Double to break the snare, increase movement speed so that he can escape from Rogue A. Even if Rogue A catches up to Kanyewest at this point, Kanye has another snare breaker with Strafe, and a CD that will reset strafe again. Kanyewest is now at range, and Assassin Rogue A has no chance to close the gap unless Kanyewest errs tremendously in his kiting as he has another CC he can use (note I only would have used 1 CC in the above scenario) as well as several ways to increase his movement speed. In the amount of time Rogue A was on Kanyewest, he may have taken him down 50%, but now that Kanyewest has range, the fight is over due to the DR kicking in as soon as Rogue A attempts another movement CC.

    This situation can be played out similarly with a warrior. Also, MM rogues can outrange lolpyro mages and easily burst down stormcallers before they become a threat. Clerics are tougher (hello Blessing of the Martyr nerf), but can be killed by a single MM rogue with proper CD rotating, CC, and burst management.

    This change to CC will make any class with a movement speed increase extremely overpowered in relation to the general population, making it a necessity for effective PvP. It will force competitive PvP'ers to roll around with passive movement speed increases from one of their souls, pigeon-holing them into cookie cutter specs.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is...






    It's going to be good at the top for the Marksmen come 1.2.

  13. #13
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    If knockbacks had a dead zone then maybe snares could be classed as non cc. Too easy to knock back and stack snares making mdps easy pickings for ranged classes.






  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    If knockbacks had a dead zone then maybe snares could be classed as non cc. Too easy to knock back and stack snares making mdps easy pickings for ranged classes.
    It works both ways. When I'm on playing my melee rogue, I dread the idea of my snares being on DR. It will make it near impossible for me to kill a kiting class, I HAVE to snare them.

    If I am kiting, then I also use the snare, but it's not all I have. 0 points in Riftstalker and I get a shift, I have escape artist as a ranger, I have lots of speed if I'm a marksman. I do not rely on snares near as much to kite, as I do when I am being kited.

    And I have cooldowns to close gaps with melee and so on. But with melee, I have to keep up more, so it hurts my melee player more than my kiter. It's actually working perfectly fine right now IMO, you can kite people, and you can keep people from kiting you, it all depends on who has the advantage/spec etc. I have no real problem from both sides of it. It's the other forms of CC that don't break on damage and such that are the problem for everyone.
    Last edited by perlfreak; 05-04-2011 at 03:44 PM.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched Jorm's Avatar
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    I think Warriors are ****ed with this patch. DR on snare, and the 2 decent abilities to close the gap, Bullrush and Thread the Trees put a ****ty root on the target. So if you charge 1st, your snare will already be at 50%. Add in that many classes have movement inhibitor breaks, and no one is going to be snareable and can just run away at normal speed.

    Sure, kiting gets hurt by snare DR, but any class that needs to stay in melee range to do damage is getting ****ed up the arse.
    Un-nerf snare please.

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