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Thread: About the CC in PvP

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default About the CC in PvP

    Dear Trion

    There is in my opinion way to much CC in Rift PvP.

    I want to play the game not just stand there not being able to do anything. There is even CC that does not break with damage. I have gone from 100% hp down to 0% hp without being able to do any actions what so ever.

    And the amount over time is a problem as well. Sometimes long periods of time goes by with just a few moments of me being able to play the game.

    Personally i would like to se all CC removed from PvP. But if that is to much to ask i have a few suggestions.

    1. All CC break on damage.
    2. After getting CCéd one becomes immune to CC for 60 sec.

    /ip99

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara
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    1.2 patch notes, have you read them?

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  3. #3
    Plane Touched TheGrump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ip99 View Post
    Dear Trion

    There is in my opinion way to much CC in Rift PvP.

    I want to play the game not just stand there not being able to do anything. There is even CC that does not break with damage. I have gone from 100% hp down to 0% hp without being able to do any actions what so ever.

    And the amount over time is a problem as well. Sometimes long periods of time goes by with just a few moments of me being able to play the game.

    Personally i would like to se all CC removed from PvP. But if that is to much to ask i have a few suggestions.

    1. All CC break on damage.
    2. After getting CCéd one becomes immune to CC for 60 sec.

    /ip99
    While I can understand your frustration with CC abilities, Warfront PvP is about tactics and strategy, not mindless killing. CC abilities help to fill a very important niche and to gimp them as severely as you would is something that would only cause Warfront PvP to devolve into more of the PK-fests that they are (and shouldn't be).

    Let's take your suggestions point by point though.

    CC should break on damage
    Most CC that doesn't merely slow a character does break on damage, especially Dominator CC, and rightfully so. After all, you're already controlled and it would add insult to injury, let alone be ungodly overpowered, if you could be damaged severely during the CC. There are some abilities that allow a certain small amount of damage to be taken before the control is broken though, a very small percentage, and there are a few abilities that allow for extra damage after a CC is removed, an even smaller percentage yet. These abilities are designed around a team using them, not 1v1 nonsense that has little place in a Warfront. This is also why CC breaks on damage: 1v1 has little place in a Warfront.

    CC immunity for 60s after suffering CC
    10 seconds is a lot of time in a Warfront and 30 seconds, the average CD, is even longer. 60 seconds would be an unreasonable length of time to be immune to any CC, let alone just one player's CC, and would further push Warfront PvP down the PK-fest line. Please understand that classes that rely on CC as their bread and butter are incredibly weak otherwise and need protection, while others like that primarily do damage and still have some form of CC (e.g. Warlocks) have a cast-time CC or an insta-cast CC on a cooldown.

    Let's try to understand that CC itself isn't an issue, the issue is mainly how people play. The vast majority of people who choose to PvP in Warfronts are interested in PK, not true PvP and because of that there is a lot of **** that hits the fan when people who are good at CC prevent them from blowing things up. We don't have the problems here with CC that were present in early WoW when a Warlock could Fear you into oblivion, but we do have some legitimate problems with chain-stuns happening in Warfronts. Neutering CC is not the way to fix this issue.


  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara krilly's Avatar
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    ive been 2 shotted, while i was a squirell, theres ways for dominators to not have it break on damage
    Mage - steel cannon
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  5. #5
    aux
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    I think there's too much damage and we need more CC.
    I'm so BORED

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrump View Post
    While I can understand your frustration with CC abilities, Warfront PvP is about tactics and strategy, not mindless killing. CC abilities help to fill a very important niche and to gimp them as severely as you would is something that would only cause Warfront PvP to devolve into more of the PK-fests that they are (and shouldn't be).

    Let's take your suggestions point by point though.

    CC should break on damage
    Most CC that doesn't merely slow a character does break on damage, especially Dominator CC, and rightfully so. After all, you're already controlled and it would add insult to injury, let alone be ungodly overpowered, if you could be damaged severely during the CC. There are some abilities that allow a certain small amount of damage to be taken before the control is broken though, a very small percentage, and there are a few abilities that allow for extra damage after a CC is removed, an even smaller percentage yet. These abilities are designed around a team using them, not 1v1 nonsense that has little place in a Warfront. This is also why CC breaks on damage: 1v1 has little place in a Warfront.

    CC immunity for 60s after suffering CC
    10 seconds is a lot of time in a Warfront and 30 seconds, the average CD, is even longer. 60 seconds would be an unreasonable length of time to be immune to any CC, let alone just one player's CC, and would further push Warfront PvP down the PK-fest line. Please understand that classes that rely on CC as their bread and butter are incredibly weak otherwise and need protection, while others like that primarily do damage and still have some form of CC (e.g. Warlocks) have a cast-time CC or an insta-cast CC on a cooldown.

    Let's try to understand that CC itself isn't an issue, the issue is mainly how people play. The vast majority of people who choose to PvP in Warfronts are interested in PK, not true PvP and because of that there is a lot of **** that hits the fan when people who are good at CC prevent them from blowing things up. We don't have the problems here with CC that were present in early WoW when a Warlock could Fear you into oblivion, but we do have some legitimate problems with chain-stuns happening in Warfronts. Neutering CC is not the way to fix this issue.
    Thank you for your answer.

    I dont know if its just me but i have been killed many times uduring CC. From moment of attack and to the point of death.

    I like to have intense battles in PvP without CC. Were damage, healing and strategy are the main components not getting my abillity to play taken away from me.

    /ip99

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Chiron101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    I think there's too much damage and we need more CC.
    ^
    My lock is top on the damage done and here is my super duper secret guys.

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    (1,2,3 and 4 keybinded to DoTs)... Stratagy where art thou

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by krilly View Post
    ive been 2 shotted, while i was a squirell, theres ways for dominators to not have it break on damage
    Its just wrong in my opinion.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    I think there's too much damage and we need more CC.
    This.

    Damage spam fest pvp is boring.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by ip99 View Post
    Thank you for your answer.

    I dont know if its just me but i have been killed many times uduring CC. From moment of attack and to the point of death.

    I like to have intense battles in PvP without CC. Were damage, healing and strategy are the main components not getting my abillity to play taken away from me.

    /ip99
    Well think of it this way. Yes damage (saving burst for right moment), healing (good healers avoid cc), and strategy (focus fireing) are important parts of PvP, adding cc brings on a whole different level of skill.

    Now you not only have those three factors involved, but now you can control the enemy healer and then focus fire during a time of no heals, you can cc the person killing your teammate or healer, and you have to worry about preventing / removing cc from your teammates. All these factors reward skilled teamwork and coordination.

    Instead of thinking of CC only when it happens to you, look at your soul tree and use your cc and your "focus" target to manipulate two+ enemys at once, while trying to save (peel for) your teammates with the same such cc.

    Its alot of fun once you think of it differently.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Thanks for all the replies.

    I find it hard to understand why more people dont have a bigger problem with CC.

    Am I the only one that have screamed out loud during CC "PLEASE LET ME PLAY"?

    But i think there must be some sort of consensus on the CC that does not break from damage. That just has to go.

    To quote TheGrump "After all, you're already controlled and it would add insult to injury, let alone be ungodly overpowered, if you could be damaged severely during the CC. "

    /ip99

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by ip99 View Post
    Thanks for all the replies.

    I find it hard to understand why more people dont have a bigger problem with CC.

    Am I the only one that have screamed out loud during CC "PLEASE LET ME PLAY"?

    But i think there must be some sort of consensus on the CC that does not break from damage. That just has to go.

    To quote TheGrump "After all, you're already controlled and it would add insult to injury, let alone be ungodly overpowered, if you could be damaged severely during the CC. "

    /ip99
    Do you people even know what patch notes are?

    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...8th-April-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Archonix View Post
    Evening!

    Continuing with the overall balance updates for PvP in 1.2, we have some additional info on changes that should be hitting PTS over the course of the next few days.

    Updates to Crowd Control

    Control’s role in PvP is a challenging one. Control abiltiies need to be useful, but not dominating. At its core, actually getting to use your abilities is much more fun than not being able to use your abilities, or being destroyed before you get a chance to break out or understand why. Our previous Crowd Control groups were too spread out across too many types to be reliably understandable.

    With that said, we've consolidated all Control abilities into the following two groups both for calculating diminishing returns and for classifying Control Breaker abilities:


    Movement
    • Root, Snare, Knockback
    Control
    • Banish, Disarm, Silence, Fear, Confuse, Mesmerize, Stun

    In PvP both groups have a 100% initial application (8 second max), 50% second application, and provide immunity to similar effects for 30 seconds after the initial application.

    Spells that break CC effects have been updated to either break all movement impairing effects, all control effects, or both.

    With the addition of Snare to diminishing returns, we've retuned numerous abilities that previously passively triggered snares to make them more beneficial post 1.2.

    Examples:
    • Shaman: Vengeance of the Frozen Earth will only apply a snare if the target isn't already under the effects of one.
    • Archmage: Replaced Lethargy with Degeneration - Channels dark energy into the enemy player, dealing Death damage over 3 seconds, and removes a single buff effect from the enemy player each second. This ability is obtained after spending 10 points in the Archmage soul and has a 30 second cooldown.

    Damage Reduction Effects

    After evaluating a lot of balance data, we’re keeping approximately the same amount of damage reduction, but tilting some of the effectiveness out of the PvP souls into PvP gear. The goal is to ensure that both aspects provide a useful benefit, instead of the majority coming from the souls themselves. For some soul combinations, the balance of damage reduction was overwhelmingly coming from the souls themselves.

    Templar
    • Ethereal Shell: Reduced duration to 5 seconds. Damage reduction has been reduced to 3/6/9/12/15% per point spent. Once triggered cannot be triggered again for 15 seconds.
    • Blessing of the Martyr: Removed previous functionality. Now gives your damaging abilities a 20% chance to remove 1 buff from enemy players. Once triggered cannot be triggered again for 2 seconds.
    • Arcane Defenses: Spell damage reduction has been reduced to 1% per point spent.

    Archmage
    • Ethereal Shell: Reduced duration to 5 seconds. Damage reduction has been reduced to 3/6/9/12/15% per point spent. Once triggered cannot be triggered again for 15 seconds.
    • Steelweave: Physical damage reduction has been reduced to 1% per point spent.

    Infiltrator
    • Against All Odds: Now triggers from stun/root/disarm, reduces damage by 3/6/9/12/15% and lasts 5 seconds. Once triggered cannot be triggered again for 15 seconds.
    • Evading Thoughts: Reduced duration to 2 seconds per combo point.
    • Take Cover: AoE damage reduction has been reduced to 3% per point spent
    • Ignore Pain: No longer stacks with other powerful short duration damage reduction buffs.

    In addition to the above changes, we're placing a cap on the percent of damage that can be reduced by pure damage reduction effects from spells and abilities in PvP.

    This will only affect PvP game play and is currently capped at 75%. The cap will have no effect on Armor Mitigation, Spell Resistances or Valor as those all occur before pure damage reduction is applied.

    We'll continue to monitor the effects of both CC and Damage Reduction in PvP, and make additional changes as needed to ensure a fun PvP experience across all souls and level ranges.

    Thanks for the continued feedback!
    Last edited by Sundial; 05-05-2011 at 09:15 AM.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara Kanabull's Avatar
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    OP will get his wish in 1.2 and then he will be back on these boards crying because he will get blown up all the same. Bad is still bad, with CC or without it.
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  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Thanks Sundial.

    Good news indeed.

    I did not read the pachnotes before. And i did not write them either, although this quota could not get much closer to my feelings about the matter.

    "At its core, actually getting to use your abilities is much more fun than not being able to use your abilities, or being destroyed before you get a chance to break out or understand why."

    /ip99

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