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Thread: Make a lfg tool for premades.problem solved

  1. #16
    Plane Touched Cryptzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhunter View Post
    Lol

    Really

    You are just being silly now.
    Really, how so, explain your theory on how solo'ing should be successful?
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptzilla View Post
    And it never will, due to the fact that [companies] do not have the player base to separate anything nor can come up with enough math/logs to justify a separation...snip.
    I stopped there.

    Currently there is a single queue. There are how many different shard groupings out there? More than 4-6? The playerbase is there - the queues would actually end up being shorter.

    Yeah, so I stopped where I did.

    You're obviously just a no skill crutch-kiddie based on the majority of your posts on the matter in various threads. Waste of time...really.

  3. #18
    Plane Touched Cryptzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    I stopped there.

    Currently there is a single queue. There are how many different shard groupings out there? More than 4-6? The playerbase is there - the queues would actually end up being shorter.

    Yeah, so I stopped where I did.

    You're obviously just a no skill crutch-kiddie based on the majority of your posts on the matter in various threads. Waste of time...really.
    The player base is there, on a global scale of numbers. However, a small percentage of the player base actually PVP. Perhaps your server/cluster is lucky. But we have consistent 10+ minute queue time(s) within ours. WITH no separation atm. Yea, the player base is flowing with PVP activity.

    Yes, I have no skill, I just come from one of the top RVR games that required it.

    My resume is in my tag (grouped and solo) not requiring anyone holding my hand. Perhaps you should view the URL and watch some of the videos some day and take notes. Mr. Care-bear PVP player.

    Better yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2x0yWfh2A0 & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQjqe6FKB3k

    Easier access to a no skill crutch-kid!
    Last edited by Cryptzilla; 05-04-2011 at 12:00 PM.
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  4. #19
    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptzilla View Post
    The player base is there, on a global scale of numbers. However, a small percentage of the player base actually PVP. Perhaps your server/cluster is lucky. But we have consistent 10+ minute queue time(s) within ours. WITH no separation atm. Yea, the player base is flowing with PVP activity.
    If you have been reading anything that I have been stating about this - even in the post you quoted, you would see that I have stated for any separation to take place - they would have to open the clusters to all shards.

    It would be beyond ******ed to try to separate them with the current shard groupings. They could actually do the separation and reduce overall queue times for players by doing a single cluster with the separations.

    Like I said, but I guess you missed:

    Current - no separation, one queue, split into how many shard groups?
    Proposed - separation, multiple queues, one shard group.

    There are more than 4-6 shard groups. If there were 4-6 queues with a single shard group (all shards in the same group) - how would this not handle the issue of pugs/premades, Rank6/Rank1, and queue times all in one shot?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bourbon View Post
    As the title says
    I was all set to tear this down, then I had an idea. I'm on a server where not many people pvp. However, I do have certain people from other servers I'd like to group with, simply because they are decent, share the same philosophy on pvp, and are well..decent. So...I was going to bash it, but it actually seems decent, but only if you can include the option to pick the people you want in your premade.

  6. #21
    Rift Disciple Wulfhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptzilla View Post
    The player base is there, on a global scale of numbers. However, a small percentage of the player base actually PVP. Perhaps your server/cluster is lucky. But we have consistent 10+ minute queue time(s) within ours. WITH no separation atm. Yea, the player base is flowing with PVP activity.
    It seems to me that you are arguing that separation will cause heightened queue times. While this is certainly true, I am fairly certain that it will not shatter the game. We have to consider the simple fact that many of these premades are likely just trade channel PUGs that remembered to get 2 or 3 healers (which, alone, by the way, is enough of an edge to crush most actual PUGs).

    I would bet good money that the vast majority of those players would begin solo queuing if separation happened. The rest would likely just stop PvPing, but oh well. That just means they were just abusing the premade vs PUG problem and PUG-stomping and possibly even queue-dodging against guild premades.

    Furthermore, I believe just about everyone supports removing the cluster shard system and making queues region-wide, which would certainly help this hypothetical (and the actual) queue problem(s). If it makes any difference, the cluster I am in is not any luckier than your own, apparently. Very early in the day I can luck out with quick queues, but past 6pm server or so, most queues are 10+ minutes, often 15+.

    I am not going to comment on the bit about your skill. I have no desire to discuss or attempt to belittle your skill or anyone else's. For one, I don't actually consider it relevant to the topic at hand. Being able to join or form a premade is not really a matter of skill, which makes it, in my opinion, completely irrelevant to this particular discussion.
    Last edited by Wulfhunter; 05-04-2011 at 12:13 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saboth View Post
    I was all set to tear this down, then I had an idea. I'm on a server where not many people pvp. However, I do have certain people from other servers I'd like to group with, simply because they are decent, share the same philosophy on pvp, and are well..decent. So...I was going to bash it, but it actually seems decent, but only if you can include the option to pick the people you want in your premade.
    Considering Trion's attempts to include social media in the game (Twitter, YouTube) - it is kind of surprising they have simply not gone full blown with it in regard to being able to IM/PM players on other shards - form guilds across shards - queue with friends from other shards, etc, etc, etc.

    It is obvious they have made just another game lobby game - why they have not tried to push that to the next level is beyond me.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    If you have been reading anything that I have been stating about this - even in the post you quoted, you would see that I have stated for any separation to take place - they would have to open the clusters to all shards.

    It would be beyond ******ed to try to separate them with the current shard groupings. They could actually do the separation and reduce overall queue times for players by doing a single cluster with the separations.

    Like I said, but I guess you missed:

    Current - no separation, one queue, split into how many shard groups?
    Proposed - separation, multiple queues, one shard group.

    There are more than 4-6 shard groups. If there were 4-6 queues with a single shard group (all shards in the same group) - how would this not handle the issue of pugs/premades, Rank6/Rank1, and queue times all in one shot?
    I read your recommendation, but why separate them? Simply cluster every shard and utilize the same programming to prioritize group make ups into the same WF with opposing groups... aka a WAR FRONT.

    You have a greater chance to be paired with more puggers, but you are not perhaps diminishing the opportunities for groups either.
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  9. #24
    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhunter View Post
    I am not going to comment on the bit about your skill. I have no desire to discuss or attempt to belittle your skill or anyone else's. For one, I don't actually consider it relevant to the topic at hand. Being able to join or form a premade is not really a matter of skill, which makes it, in my opinion, completely irrelevant to this particular discussion.
    I want to point out here why I brought up his "skill" in the discussion - too many of the posts referred to the undergeared and lower ranked player as lacking skill. This leaves the path open to presume that he sees gear/rank as skill. The opposition to fights taking place between equally geared/ranked players to have those battles determined more by skill (they will never entirely be determined as such - latency, RNG, etc, etc, etc) - showed a certain reliance on crutches - gear/Rank.

    The image that came to mind is the chest thumping analogy.

    Player A - thumps their chest after a hard fought battle against equally geared/Ranked players, where both the player's and group's skill determined the winner in the end.

    Player B - thumps their chest after dropping a hand grenade in a barrel while calling it fishing.

    I would rather be known as Player A than Player B. I get no sense of accomplishment out of a victory over a team that never stood a chance in the first place. I cannot better my skills by fighting an opponent that offers no actual challenge. Likewise, I cannot better my skills by being one of the fish in the barrel.

  10. #25
    Plane Touched Cryptzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhunter View Post
    It seems to me that you are arguing that separation will cause heightened queue times. While this is certainly true, I am fairly certain that it will not shatter the game. We have to consider the simple fact that many of these premades are likely just trade channel PUGs that remembered to get 2 or 3 healers (which, alone, by the way, is enough of an edge to crush most actual PUGs).

    I would bet good money that the vast majority of those players would begin solo queuing if separation happened. The rest would likely just stop PvPing, but oh well. That just means they were just abusing the premade vs PUG problem and PUG-stomping and possibly even queue-dodging against guild premades.

    Furthermore, I believe just about everyone supports removing the cluster shard system and making queues region-wide, which would certainly help this hypothetical (and the actual) queue problem(s). If it makes any difference, the cluster I am in is not any luckier than your own, apparently. Very early in the day I can luck out with quick queues, but past 6pm server or so, most queues are 10+ minutes, often 15+.

    I am not going to comment on the bit about your skill. I have no desire to discuss or attempt to belittle your skill or anyone else's. For one, I don't actually consider it relevant to the topic at hand. Being able to join or form a premade is not really a matter of skill, which makes it, in my opinion, completely irrelevant to this particular discussion.
    I have always been a fan for merging us all. But I will never be a fan of separation. No player should benefit no more of less in the Battleground mechanics. Period.

    I am all for being put into a bracket that consist of other groups as well as pugs, but to separate us completely will just bring up other cry outs.

    - We cannot compete with [certain groups] (especially if two of them were on the same shard). When it trickles down to a skill factor, you are right, some of those groups will solo queue. And the winning side of the groups have to suffer... where as, the solo queue will never flop in this proposal.

    Which goes back to an imbalance of fairness for those true competitive groups.

    If you played Dark Age of Camelot any. They introduced an Island that groups could go to have successful group v group action. It started off with tons of groups, and trickled down to about 2-3, because the others weren't up to par and did not receive any reward for losing.

    So that left 2 groups (of the same faction) running around for hours waiting for someone to come back and it never happened.

    I see this in the forthcoming future for groups in this game, if they try to require it.

    And you are right, my resume does not warrant this threads topic, but when someone who does not know me, calls me on my skill, its only fair that I provide evidence that my information should be considered - and I am simply not making things up behind a computer screen on the topic.

    My apologies.
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  11. #26
    Rift Disciple Wulfhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    I want to point out here why I brought up his "skill" in the discussion - too many of the posts referred to the undergeared and lower ranked player as lacking skill. This leaves the path open to presume that he sees gear/rank as skill. The opposition to fights taking place between equally geared/ranked players to have those battles determined more by skill (they will never entirely be determined as such - latency, RNG, etc, etc, etc) - showed a certain reliance on crutches - gear/Rank.
    I agree with you. I would also like to clarify that I wasn't attempting to bash you with my little snippet there, I just didn't feel like responding to that part of his post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptzilla View Post
    I have always been a fan for merging us all. But I will never be a fan of separation. No player should benefit no more of less in the Battleground mechanics. Period.

    I am all for being put into a bracket that consist of other groups as well as pugs, but to separate us completely will just bring up other cry outs.
    I could probably live with your suggestion earlier of 'tendency to separate' code going both ways, instead of just for groups. While not a complete separation, I think it would lead to less 'streaky' gameplay for solo queuers like myself. In addition, have you considered the possibility of not entirely removing groups from the main queues, but opening up a separate, optional queue button that would be specifically for premade v premade action? I could probably even live with this type of optional queue giving slightly better rewards. Just an idea.
    Last edited by Wulfhunter; 05-04-2011 at 12:28 PM.

  12. #27
    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    Win or lose a Garden by ten points or less - I'm stoked. Win or lose, I'm stoked. It was likely an awesome battle that got the adrenalin pumping.

    Win or lose a Garden where one team had less than ten points - meh. Whether I'm on the winning or losing side, it is just meh - it was either boring or it was frustrating.

  13. #28
    Plane Touched Cryptzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    I want to point out here why I brought up his "skill" in the discussion - too many of the posts referred to the undergeared and lower ranked player as lacking skill. This leaves the path open to presume that he sees gear/rank as skill. The opposition to fights taking place between equally geared/ranked players to have those battles determined more by skill (they will never entirely be determined as such - latency, RNG, etc, etc, etc) - showed a certain reliance on crutches - gear/Rank.

    The image that came to mind is the chest thumping analogy.

    Player A - thumps their chest after a hard fought battle against equally geared/Ranked players, where both the player's and group's skill determined the winner in the end.

    Player B - thumps their chest after dropping a hand grenade in a barrel while calling it fishing.

    I would rather be known as Player A than Player B. I get no sense of accomplishment out of a victory over a team that never stood a chance in the first place. I cannot better my skills by fighting an opponent that offers no actual challenge. Likewise, I cannot better my skills by being one of the fish in the barrel.
    LOL, I am sorry, enlighten me where I have ever posted that Rank and Gear defined skill in any MMO?

    That is far from what I would ever say, because my Guild stomped over plenty of higher ranked groups/pugs/whatever at Rank 1. Hell, because I choose to play different characters, none of my toons have made it to Rank 4 yet. However, we still dominate premades.

    Sorry my friend, epic items on your back and/or a title does not scare me, ever. Because it is clear a lot with both are terrible.
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  14. #29
    Rift Disciple Wulfhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    Win or lose a Garden by ten points or less - I'm stoked. Win or lose, I'm stoked. It was likely an awesome battle that got the adrenalin pumping.

    Win or lose a Garden where one team had less than ten points - meh. Whether I'm on the winning or losing side, it is just meh - it was either boring or it was frustrating.
    Yeah. Well, I think all of us in this thread can probably agree on one thing: competitive victories (or losses) are the most enjoyable, for sure. I'm basically up for listening to any idea that increases how often those happen.

  15. #30
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    Definitely YES to having ALL shards funneled to the Warfronts. Shorted queue times is a win for everyone.


    As for premades (guild or trade) versus PUG, they're all fun. I actually enjoy a Pug that can pull it together and work as a team. Some are horribly sad and pathetic, but others are awesome fun, especially when everyone really works together for that 5-20 minutes. It really comes down to knowing your class, knowing the warfront and working together.

    Personally I find them less boring than a premade of you do A, Bill does B, Steve does C, etc., every match that premades can be. I'll do them but it starts to resemble raiding endlessly for gear - boring.
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