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Thread: How 'bout creating a warfront level for level 50's with tier level gear.

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    Default How 'bout creating a warfront level for level 50's with tier level gear.

    I am a level 50 and i fully understand why I get crushed 99% of the time when I play in warfronts. I am not complaining about this and I do what I can but I think there should be, for lack of a better word, "EXPERT" warfronts for those with exceptional gear.....etc.

    There are separation in the warfronts already based on player levels but for some reason when you hit 50 they lump all the 50's together and quite frankly with all the prestige, valor, gear, etc it really isn't a fair match. You wouldn't put a level 30 in a warfront with a level 50 so why would you put a basic level 50 in with all these high end PVPers.

    They should have there own expert warfronts where they must fight with those of comparative achievements.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple NeverDeath's Avatar
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    They, like many games before them, need to do two things, and I think Trion is a smart enough developer that this time, they might actually, at some point in the future, do something like this:

    1. Create multiple pools for PvP, based on gear. Even just breaking the current lump in two so that the people with all purples aren't in against the people with all blues, it could rate by total item values, it could rate by total Valor stats, it could rate by Prestige Rank, there are many ways this could be done. Just something, as you said, to allows new 50s to have fun and be competitive, instead of being fodder and quitting PvP out of frustration, which when you're newly 50 in blues trying to battle against prestige rank 6 monsters, is a very understandable reaction.

    2. Create two separate queues - one for premades, and one for random pickups. The pickup groups would be less than 3, the premades would be more than 3, or any other arbitrary number Trion deemed worthy. Another big part of PvP frustration in games like WoW, WAR, and now RIFT, is that if you want to just have fun and do some PvP in a relatively balanced setting where you have a fair shot to win, you have a fairly high chance (especially as the game is out for greater periods of time) to wind up just running into a wall of premade groups that with coordination and gear (often times more so than skill) wipe the floor with you and your team, because they know each other and thus communicate on a much more efficient level than you and a pack of random strangers ever could.


    These problems could be solved, and could have been solved in other games where such imbalances existed - but the Devs just didn't care enough to implement them. I'm sure that many people quit WAR because it's a game based around competitive play, and they just felt overwhelmed by all the premades rolling their faces. In world PvP, premades happen. But they shouldn't completely ruin your ability to find fun and competitive PvP if you're not part of a huge strike force. I think Trion could be the first developer to tackle this problem, and actually succeed - but time will tell if it ever finds its way to their list of priorities.
    Say no to Damage Meters.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeverDeath View Post
    It becomes a standard by which idiots who don't understand game mechanics can judge people often unfairly. Especially in a game that allows for such diverse builds, there is a real market for support classes here, classes that don't top heals or top dps or top tanking, but can help a group by being versatile, an ace-in-the-hole for those tough situations you hope never happen, but inevitably will.

    Damage meters are an idea that can spread like wildfire among the minds of the feeble, and all they will see is numbers, and the number on that meter is the number they will place on your value - and it is incredibly short-sighted and tragically inept of them, but an almost certain side-effect of such an option. It's not necessary, in the least. You will know if you are doing well, based on how many bosses are killed while you are in attendance, because there is no "i" in team, which is something that MMO players used to understand when they were usually gamers, but less so now that they are mostly WoW-kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverDeath View Post
    They, like many games before them, need to do two things, and I think Trion is a smart enough developer that this time, they might actually, at some point in the future, do something like this:
    You have way too much faith in the worst pvp team ever assembled for an mmo. It's not like any of this is new to them? I've been telling them since beta this was going to happen. They know. The problem is they lack the will power to make the necessary changes.

    I've been telling them they need to separate the queues by rank but it keeps falling on deaf ears, people are already reaching rank 6, and all this will be a moot point.

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    The most comman way of creating fair and balanced competative games is by

    a: creating leagues to seperate players, which requires a large population base at all times of day.

    b: creating a handicap system so the better you are the bigger your handicap. the only time you get to ignore the handicap is in specific tournaments.
    Last edited by Crazybull; 05-02-2011 at 09:40 AM.

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    Rift Disciple NeverDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstitch View Post
    You have way too much faith in the worst pvp team ever assembled for an mmo. It's not like any of this is new to them? I've been telling them since beta this was going to happen. They know. The problem is they lack the will power to make the necessary changes.

    I've been telling them they need to separate the queues by rank but it keeps falling on deaf ears, people are already reaching rank 6, and all this will be a moot point.

    You call this the worst team assembled for PvP? You're out of your mind/completely inexperienced. I've seen muuuuuch worse, like Mythic with the way they handled Warhammer, Cryptic with the way there are 3 or 4 key powers for PvP in Champions, and only arena-style fights, or how about Age of Conan where nobody even does sieges for the past 2 years, almost ever - and the minis never happen.

    Either way, with all the complaints I've had that HAVE been fixed/are being fixed as we speak, since OB, it's hard for me not to have a bit of faith in them, until they prove undeserving. If you segregate by Prestige rank, it might be spreading the playerbase too thin, as there are currently 6 ranks, and will likely be more beyond that number, in the future.
    Say no to Damage Meters.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeverDeath View Post
    It becomes a standard by which idiots who don't understand game mechanics can judge people often unfairly. Especially in a game that allows for such diverse builds, there is a real market for support classes here, classes that don't top heals or top dps or top tanking, but can help a group by being versatile, an ace-in-the-hole for those tough situations you hope never happen, but inevitably will.

    Damage meters are an idea that can spread like wildfire among the minds of the feeble, and all they will see is numbers, and the number on that meter is the number they will place on your value - and it is incredibly short-sighted and tragically inept of them, but an almost certain side-effect of such an option. It's not necessary, in the least. You will know if you are doing well, based on how many bosses are killed while you are in attendance, because there is no "i" in team, which is something that MMO players used to understand when they were usually gamers, but less so now that they are mostly WoW-kids.

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    man you guys wont stop until you get trion to comes to everyones house gives everyone a physical and measures things like hand eye coordination and reflexes contacts your cable company to see how your internat latency is and uses the data to determine who should be paired with who in WFs
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    man you guys wont stop until you get trion to comes to everyones house gives everyone a physical and measures things like hand eye coordination and reflexes contacts your cable company to see how your internat latency is and uses the data to determine who should be paired with who in WFs
    seriously, i have never read so many different versions of 'i suck, i need u to help me feel like i have any form of skillful talents, as i click my spells in greens and blues.'

    jesus ... freakin' change your style of play - perhaps things will change in your outcome. this whole casual player, no time to change is gettin old... because a month from game release, you are level 50, and obviously you dealt with premade groups in pvp enough to determine you are incapable of winning... simply put that you are not a casual player. stop lying to yourself

    if you consistently come up with excuses as to why you are incapable of adapting, what makes you think developers would adapt for you? kinda want results that you aren't willing to produce on your own? how ironic
    Last edited by Cryptzilla; 05-02-2011 at 10:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptzilla View Post
    seriously, i have never read so many different versions of 'i suck, i need u to help me feel like i have any form of skillful talents, as i click my spells in greens and blues.'

    jesus ... freakin' change your style of play - perhaps things will change in your outcome. this whole casual player, no time to change is gettin old... because a month from game release, you are level 50, and obviously you dealt with premade groups in pvp enough to determine you are incapable of winning... simply put that you are not a casual player. stop lying to yourself

    if you consistently come up with excuses as to why you are incapable of adapting, what makes you think developers would adapt for you? kinda want results that you aren't willing to produce on your own? how ironic
    But a change like the OP is suggesting is too hard for you to adapt to? Only reason I could think you'd object to their idea is that you want your easymode pvp WF's. Splitting the WF's in anyway means you'll be forced to play against equally geared and equally ranked players and the gravy train will end.






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    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    But a change like the OP is suggesting is too hard for you to adapt to? Only reason I could think you'd object to their idea is that you want your easymode pvp WF's. Splitting the WF's in anyway means you'll be forced to play against equally geared and equally ranked players and the gravy train will end.
    i object to the idea cause catering to people that suck by makeing silly thing like this will completely halt the progression of this games content. i want to the game to grow and flourish not be held back by bad players that need to be coddled and have there hands held. everyone has at 1 time been a fresh 50 everyone has lost a WF, get overit so this game can focus on growing and not regressing.
    Last edited by jaym7018; 05-02-2011 at 10:27 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    i object to the idea cause catering to people that suck by makeing silly thing like this will completely halt the progression of this games content. i want to the game to grow and flourish not be held back by bad players that need to be coddled and have there hands held. everyone has at 1 time been a fresh 50 everyone has lost a WF, get overit so this game can focus on growing and not regressing.
    Clearly you have no concept of fair play. How many rank 6 premades did you face whilst leveling your rank in warfronts? New 50's are not bad and don't suck they are just not geared nor have access to the pvp soul tiers that rank 6's have. Why should they be forced to compete with those premades?
    When the alpha testers claimed Rift pvp was balanced back in January was this something they tested? Very doubtful.
    1.2 patch is introducing more purples for new non-ranked 50's. Do you seriously think they're doing this because they think it's about player skill?






  11. #11
    Plane Touched Cryptzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    But a change like the OP is suggesting is too hard for you to adapt to? Only reason I could think you'd object to their idea is that you want your easymode pvp WF's. Splitting the WF's in anyway means you'll be forced to play against equally geared and equally ranked players and the gravy train will end.
    what would I adapt to? no queues at all? while you get instantly queued? yes, that definitely balanced the situation. you gain prestige while i sit here in a 2hr queue.

    and it is only easymode, because people like you do not understand basic PVP mechanics and at the same time, are so unorganized, you make it easy. it is not organized fault you enjoy being unorganized.

    there are just not enough clusters, premades and/or fanbase in general to separate anyone... or are you oblivious to this math as well?

    noone enjoys dominating terrible play. the only thing we strive for is less terrible players, chances of that happening is the chances it will be for you to get a separate queue with other terrible players. Good luck with that
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    Clearly you have no concept of fair play. How many rank 6 premades did you face whilst leveling your rank in warfronts? New 50's are not bad and don't suck they are just not geared nor have access to the pvp soul tiers that rank 6's have. Why should they be forced to compete with those premades?
    When the alpha testers claimed Rift pvp was balanced back in January was this something they tested? Very doubtful.
    1.2 patch is introducing more purples for new non-ranked 50's. Do you seriously think they're doing this because they think it's about player skill?
    How many rank 6 premades do you face how do you know anyone you face is rank 6 ? 9/10 times you say "how am i supposed to beat a rank 6 premade" they are probably rank 3 in slightly better gear than you the difference is they are organized and play well and you are bad. Bad players generally are unwiling to accept they are bad instead they just write it off as the other team is one big premade that is prestige 6 and has acquired every piece of gear in the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    Clearly you have no concept of fair play. How many rank 6 premades did you face whilst leveling your rank in warfronts? New 50's are not bad and don't suck they are just not geared nor have access to the pvp soul tiers that rank 6's have. Why should they be forced to compete with those premades?
    When the alpha testers claimed Rift pvp was balanced back in January was this something they tested? Very doubtful.
    1.2 patch is introducing more purples for new non-ranked 50's. Do you seriously think they're doing this because they think it's about player skill?
    i get it, because you did not order the game at release, and didn't have to go through all of the bugs, buffs, nerfs, overpoweredness, grind, and/or deal with incorrectly designed gear, its only unfair for you that those who made it to Rank 6 throughout all of that and still to this day?

    people like you are just the same reason why games flop and becomes so unchallengeable, no one cares to continue to play it. because they dumb it down so much, a dog can play it with his paws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bltzkrieg666 View Post
    I am a level 50 and i fully understand why I get crushed 99% of the time when I play in warfronts. I am not complaining about this and I do what I can but I think there should be, for lack of a better word, "EXPERT" warfronts for those with exceptional gear.....etc.

    There are separation in the warfronts already based on player levels but for some reason when you hit 50 they lump all the 50's together and quite frankly with all the prestige, valor, gear, etc it really isn't a fair match. You wouldn't put a level 30 in a warfront with a level 50 so why would you put a basic level 50 in with all these high end PVPers.

    They should have there own expert warfronts where they must fight with those of comparative achievements.
    Then there is no point in prestige ranks if place r1 vs r1, r2 vs r2 and so on.

    Then there is even no point in gears, just let everyone go nude.

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    Plane Touched Cryptzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acex View Post
    Then there is no point in prestige ranks if place r1 vs r1, r2 vs r2 and so on.

    Then there is even no point in gears, just let everyone go nude.
    ^ ^

    exactly, no progression at all, if you don't care about becoming better at what you do, just use that option that says "disable my PVP flag" and you won't have to worry about fighting anyone marked for PVP.

    because no matter what, someone and/or something will still be unfair.
    Last edited by Cryptzilla; 05-02-2011 at 11:06 AM.
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