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Thread: Great pvp idea for underdogs

  1. #1
    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    Default Great pvp idea for underdogs

    I won't take credit for this but Zariyn posted:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zariyn View Post
    How about this idea:
    Each time you lose, you get a stacking buff increasing damage/healing by 5% and reducing damage taken by 5%. Make it stack up to 6 times (30% total) but gets reset when you win a game. Add some flag that only applies it when in a warfront.
    This idea might actually have some merit and well great have the imbalanced in pvp atm. I hate rolling pugs in my premade because it's just not fun. I hate losing to premades when I pug because that's not fun.

    Of course this buff should

    1) Only apply to warfronts
    2) Lasts 1 hour (stackable)
    3) 5% is too high, maybe 3%
    4) Removed with the deserter buff

    What does the community think.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    I won't take credit for this but Zariyn posted:



    This idea might actually have some merit and well great have the imbalanced in pvp atm. I hate rolling pugs in my premade because it's just not fun. I hate losing to premades when I pug because that's not fun.

    Of course this buff should

    1) Only apply to warfronts
    2) Lasts 1 hour (stackable)
    3) 5% is too high, maybe 3%
    4) Removed with the deserter buff

    What does the community think.
    im sorry but are you asking to be rewarded for losing? you want a ribbon just for participating? good lord. apply same theory to each death in dungeons. i want my damage/healing to go up each time we wipe, until every t2 is ezmode. lets apply this to greenscale as well, so eventually we can just 10 man it.

    ok i like that this discussions is evolving to solutions that are outside of the box. this seems to be of the debate that premades should be punished for winning, given some sort of handicap. i don't think this is fair by any stretch of the imagination.

    i still do not believe this is fair, but a less severe application would be only to deaths in a warfront. it would not follow you to the next game, nor out of the current warfront.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara Gnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    I won't take credit for this but Zariyn posted:



    This idea might actually have some merit and well great have the imbalanced in pvp atm. I hate rolling pugs in my premade because it's just not fun. I hate losing to premades when I pug because that's not fun.

    Of course this buff should

    1) Only apply to warfronts
    2) Lasts 1 hour (stackable)
    3) 5% is too high, maybe 3%
    4) Removed with the deserter buff

    What does the community think.
    I would be fine with 5% stacking 5 times. 25% is loads.
    The buff can be permanent until a win is given.
    Yes, removed with deserter debuff.
    Will only be added or removed if there is a set time period left on the match. Would be ridiculous to have it build up or stripped if you join a BG at 450-10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vashane View Post
    I would just like to add, I sure hope they don't add something to this game before they add something else that is totally unrelated to the thing they might add, because that would really tick me off or something if they added it first before the thing that should be added first even though its totally unrelated like, you know?

  4. #4
    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncash View Post
    im sorry but are you asking to be rewarded for losing? you want a ribbon just for participating? good lord. apply same theory to each death in dungeons. i want my damage/healing to go up each time we wipe, until every t2 is ezmode. lets apply this to greenscale as well, so eventually we can just 10 man it.
    PVP and PVE are different. The difference is that in PVE the computers don't care if they lose.

    Let's take a real life example of this system. My step-father plays golf. He has a 4 handicap and has a PGA invitation (PVP rank 5). I on the other have a 28 handicap (yes I'm that bad).

    When we score I got those extra 24 strokes. This way the game is fair and competitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by ncash View Post
    ok i like that this discussions is evolving to solutions that are outside of the box. this seems to be of the debate that premades should be punished for winning, given some sort of handicap. i don't think this is fair by any stretch of the imagination.
    Pre-mades are not handicapped, its the losers who are rewarded. Also premades could be ridiculously bad too. I've seen many atrocious pre-mades

    Quote Originally Posted by ncash View Post
    i still do not believe this is fair, but a less severe application would be only to deaths in a warfront. it would not follow you to the next game, nor out of the current warfront.
    Of course it's not fair. Neither is it fair for a newly dinged 50 to face pvp rank 6's. It's more important that the game be FUN for both sides rather than FAIR. After all it's the subs that matter.

    Like I said, my pre-mades would like the competition instead of re-rolling the same pug rotation 9 times and hearing ... 'oh crap it's the xxxx again'. At least at some point the pugs will have some feeling of achievement.



    Edit: As I think about 5% isn't a lot. So this might be a good base.
    Last edited by Vaine; 05-02-2011 at 03:13 AM.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    i personally think warfronts should remain war like. if you want competitive fair play, wait for arenas.

    how are premades not handicapped in your scenario? whether you buff the losers or debuff the winners, someone is being handicapped, and its the more organized team that is managing to win, which more often than not is the premade.

  6. #6
    General of Telara Pippington's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    That instanced PvP still has these problems in most MMOs some 6 years after it was incorporated into MMOs is bizarre.

    There are so many ways to solve these problems, yet inexplicably it may as well still be 2005 for all the effort that goes into it from Developers.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncash View Post
    i personally think warfronts should remain war like. if you want competitive fair play, wait for arenas.

    how are premades not handicapped in your scenario? whether you buff the losers or debuff the winners, someone is being handicapped, and its the more organized team that is managing to win, which more often than not is the premade.
    1) You assume pre-mades win 100% of the time. They don't. Pre-mades with full rank 5/6 fighting random pvp ranks 1-2 win 99% of the time, that is true. It's also ridiculously boring ... for both sides. I really don't mind giving my opposition a damage boost.

    2) There is no assurance you'll be challenging the same person on the next rotation. Also with this systems it's going to be hard to accumulate 6 buffs. (Even when pugging when have people lost 6 in a row)

    3) Think of this as the bolstering that occurred during the lower levels as in essence it's the same thing.

    4) No one should be winning 19 out 20 of their games. Most good guilds have already quit because it's just the rich becoming richer which plagues so many pvp games.
    Last edited by Vaine; 05-02-2011 at 03:24 AM.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Great idea for helping relieve the pug vs premade problem, so perhaps on larger servers it should just be applied/in effect when it is pug vs premade, that way pvp remains fun for all and the queue times dont have to suffer (actually if pug vs premade is fun enough queue times may improve a bit). But on lower servers perhaps it should apply to all warfronts. I only say this because on my shard i tend to get huge winning streaks and they can get to pretty humiliating scores for the defiants since ussually im the only healer in a warfront (occassionally 1 or 2 off healers but you how that goes). And i dont think i could actually find enough people on my shard to form a full premade group even if i were inclined to.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    No, they shouldnt allow premades to go against pugs...period. Why should I have to lose 5 games to win 1? Pugs vs pugs and premades vs premades. If people want to form premades and the que times go up then suck it up. As the system stands now its a joke.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Tiberius1's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind a 2% bonus to damage/healing for every loss, stackable 5 times (to 10%). Any more than that and you're making it almost meaningless to have ranks.

    I would have to say that the community can play a bigger part in 'easing' the way you win/lose. I've been in pugs many time and lost to Rank 5/6 premades. I actually had some decent enemies that /hug me near the end of the match or would say something positive which actually eased the pain of that loss.

    I see so many people (on my side also) that are in Rank 5/6 gear and kill someone who's rank 1 or 2 and have a macro that say something like "You're terrible", "Quit PvPing now!", etc. That is simply classless and shows a huge lack of maturity by that individual. They basically make the loss that much worse by acting this way. To me, that's the real defeating part of a loss is to see someone say something like that. It's also defeating to win and see a teammate do something like that to the other team.

    While this isn't a solution to the difference from rank 1 to rank 6, I think acting in a mature way towards others can make a big difference. Like it or not, our enemies are the ones who can make or break the fun factor of this game. We compete against them again and again, and acting a bit more mature goes a long way for both sides.

    I also don't really think there should be a buff to the losing team, but if it's ever added it should be kept small. I'm taking my lumps on my journey to rank 6 as I expected I would. But I've also had the pleasure of beating well-geared premades along the way too.

  11. #11
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    **** no.

    Some noobs got rolled a bunch of times so now I queue up and have to fight people with huge buffs?

    Dumbest idea ever.
    Noco@Wolfsbane

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    Ascendant Vihar's Avatar
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    I just hit rank 2 this weekend.

    I totally disagree with this.

    People with higher rank deserve to be rewarded. That reward is an advantage in PVP.

    Figuring a way to nullify everything PVPers work for by making those rewards meaningless makes PVP rank meaningless, and thus warfronts meaningless.

    You just have to put in your time and work and earn your ranks, even if it means losing most of the way.

    That's what I expect to do to earn my rank, and I don't want any Trion welfare program to cater to me, NOR do I want my rank to have no value when I get it because of some Trion welfare program.

    Suck it up and earn it.

    That's like asking for a level 20 to get buffs so they can be competitive with a level 50.

    Just play the game and earn your rewards. That's the whole point of playing the game.
    Last edited by Vihar; 05-02-2011 at 06:01 AM.
    Otherwise known as Morganlefae

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncash View Post
    im sorry but are you asking to be rewarded for losing? you want a ribbon just for participating? good lord. apply same theory to each death in dungeons.
    Yeah, instead lets make it so it gets harder to win because our opponent gets better gear for winning inadvertently making it highly unlikely to win.



    This idea could work, it'd ease the pain of just starting out and would be a welcome consolation prize.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncash View Post
    i personally think warfronts should remain war like. if you want competitive fair play, wait for arenas.

    how are premades not handicapped in your scenario? whether you buff the losers or debuff the winners, someone is being handicapped, and its the more organized team that is managing to win, which more often than not is the premade.
    If this were important, I'd agree. But premades occasionally losing to pugs is not a bad thing, is it? Or is each game won by a premade a badge that must be polished in the blood of the disorganized in order for you to enjoy it?

    I'm not accusing you of this, but many, many times the waiting / starting queues will show one player from a known premade who logs in simply to see what it's facing. When they see it's a pug, the name stays on the list and the rest jump in. If I'm in my own premade, I see the name disappear.

    Rolling pugs is easier and strokes the old epeen much more reliably than occasionally losing.

    I like the handicapping schemes because they won't dust premades off into the hinterlands of queue waits and allow pugs to have a chance.

    A few guaranteed wins followed by a loss surely can't be that big a deal, can it?

    @Vihar

    In that world, the one where they are entitled to more because they've earned it, does it matter if they are skilled? What I'm seeing is similar to those who started Arenas at the beginning of the season rushing (and win trading) to get the gear with which they could stomp the daylights out of anyone who was either less skilled or less geared.

    If you are better, then you shouldn't need the gear as much. If you are worse, you definitely do. So, someone who "puts in the time" automagically should qualify to demolish new players regardless of skill?

    Gear gaps are very bad for PvP. The World Cup champions don't get to play with explosive balls and rocket propelled cleats. The point of a contest, in particular winning said contest, is to do so when there is a chance of losing. In these MMOs the tables are already stacked by class composition combos. Adding huge gear gaps merely makes the problem worse.

    If you want people to PvP, you have to give them a chance to win. Having your face in the mud so the guy above you doesn't get his shoes dirty is not a good feeling. And, if it's optional, as PvP surely is, many will opt out. I prefer shorter queues and more opponents.
    Last edited by astrocanis; 05-02-2011 at 07:53 AM.

  15. #15
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    problem with this, is you would have some people in Bg's that haven't lost at all yet grouped up with the losers making it even a more likley chance for them to win,

    thats not the issue. They just need to get some sort of premade vs premade group going, and pugs vs pugs.

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