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Thread: Looking for unbiased opinion on endgame pvp

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Looking for unbiased opinion on endgame pvp

    Let me first start by saying, my gosh these forums are probably the epicentre of whine in the online gaming community. And really thats where I'm having an issue, I've not hit 50 yet or endgame, I have a couple 30-40 now and have been fairly enjoying the game in terms of pacing and customisation and blah blah blah

    However, the forums to me have been like a massive storm cloud over my head, which has been a major deterrent in leveling my characters, and to be honest my willingness to continue subscription.

    I'm a pvper, an objective based one.. I enjoy competitive pvp brought by online gaming and so obviously with rift I've been wanting to pvp. Like i did in Myth of Soma, Lineage, Linage 2, WoW, Aion.. you know the drill.

    So I've been spending way too much time standing in town checking out rank 6 armor, endgame builds and drooling. Yet the whine storm cloud everytime I go anywhere near the forums, in search of any kind of relevant build or pvp infomation has me thinking, damn.. the game is really really this broken?

    Will I be able to enjoy pvp at all? I don't have a guild of premades up my *** ready to carry me to rank 6, am i just going to subjecting myself to torture. I don't particularly want to play pyro either, same case scenario, is playing pretty much anything else a waste of time?

    I'm quite an open minded chap, I take things at face value and tend to make up my own mind and my own strats for pvp and the like. I've been enjoying it over many games but really, I'm worried about rift.

    I hope that the whine is just.. well whine, and the game while being imbalanced, like all mmo's are and will always be, is still playable.

    Can anyone really give me an unbiased opinion? Is the game REALLY in that much trouble, or are these forums just whine central. Take no notice and continue with my plans?

  2. #2
    Sez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilmz View Post
    Let me first start by saying, my gosh these forums are probably the epicentre of whine in the online gaming community. Can anyone really give me an unbiased opinion?
    Insulting the community, then asking for a cookie will not end well.


    Edit: Never let the forums influence a personal decision such as what you want to play as.
    Last edited by Sez; 04-30-2011 at 11:14 AM.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

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  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Insulting the community, then asking for a cookie will not end well.
    Edit: Never let the forums influence a personal decision such as what you want to play as.
    Quite obviously I'm addressing the minority who aren't filling the forums with whine spam.

    Since I would consider a whiners reply to be biased I would have thought the subject made it perfectly obvious to whom I was addressing.

    And I'm looking for an opinion on the game, not a pat on the ***.. move along

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    Here is the thing...

    the game is unbalanced to a degree. most of the whines you see can easily be overcome by spec and practice. i believe trion is working on balance atm, who knows if they will ever get it right. world pvp is mostly dead, best world pvp i have had is during raid rifts. both sides like to mess with the other to keep them from getting to the final stages of a rift.

    when it comes to wfs, you either play with friends or not at all. if you pug, your win/loss ratio is going to be close to 25% or worse. if you want to rank up, make friends, join a good guild, that does pvp, and use vent for communication. pugging is close to awful. you can find plenty of evidence of that on the forums.

    i run premades of 2-4 people on a regular basis with people from my guild. our win/loss ratio is about 95%. it doesnt take a huge team to make pugs look like ******s. the small amount of communication necessary to turn the tide of almost any battle is easily attainable.

    when you hit 50 your biggest problem is going to be valor. you will have a small amount of tools from your pvp soul as well as low damage reduction compared to most everyone else you meet in wfs. this is going to cause you to die often and quickly, specifically in pug enviroment. if you are with a premade, you will more than likely have no problems.

    pvp in this game is what you make of it, and what you put into it. if you take the time to build a pvp role, test out other roles, purchase vendor gear, work with your fellow guildmates/friends. it can be very fun.

    some classes are much more suited for pvp than others. but this changes with each major patch. currently mages and clerics hold the top spots. i forsee some changes coming with 1.2, hopefully bringing warriors and rogues in line, so maybe some of the whining will stop (doubt that). aoe skills are beyond overpowered, as well as power up ball.

    the best advice i can give in relation to the red ball is get it before your enemy does. regardless of your class/spec, if you see the ball get it. it is a tide turner. if someone has the ball and they are your enemy, kill them quickly or get away :P if a pyro has the ball stay >30m away from him until its gone.

    alright hope i helped some, if you have some specific questions about classes or builds at 50, please ask

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncash View Post
    Here is the thing...

    the game is unbalanced to a degree. most of the whines you see can easily be overcome by spec and practice. i believe trion is working on balance atm, who knows if they will ever get it right. world pvp is mostly dead, best world pvp i have had is during raid rifts. both sides like to mess with the other to keep them from getting to the final stages of a rift.

    when it comes to wfs, you either play with friends or not at all. if you pug, your win/loss ratio is going to be close to 25% or worse. if you want to rank up, make friends, join a good guild, that does pvp, and use vent for communication. pugging is close to awful. you can find plenty of evidence of that on the forums.

    i run premades of 2-4 people on a regular basis with people from my guild. our win/loss ratio is about 95%. it doesnt take a huge team to make pugs look like ******s. the small amount of communication necessary to turn the tide of almost any battle is easily attainable.

    when you hit 50 your biggest problem is going to be valor. you will have a small amount of tools from your pvp soul as well as low damage reduction compared to most everyone else you meet in wfs. this is going to cause you to die often and quickly, specifically in pug enviroment. if you are with a premade, you will more than likely have no problems.

    pvp in this game is what you make of it, and what you put into it. if you take the time to build a pvp role, test out other roles, purchase vendor gear, work with your fellow guildmates/friends. it can be very fun.

    some classes are much more suited for pvp than others. but this changes with each major patch. currently mages and clerics hold the top spots. i forsee some changes coming with 1.2, hopefully bringing warriors and rogues in line, so maybe some of the whining will stop (doubt that). aoe skills are beyond overpowered, as well as power up ball.

    the best advice i can give in relation to the red ball is get it before your enemy does. regardless of your class/spec, if you see the ball get it. it is a tide turner. if someone has the ball and they are your enemy, kill them quickly or get away :P if a pyro has the ball stay >30m away from him until its gone.

    alright hope i helped some, if you have some specific questions about classes or builds at 50, please ask
    Thanks, I really appreciate the reply..

    I've really had a taste of why melee is underpowered at the moment, and I'm not sure how that will ever be addressed in full, but as an example. I said I was very much an objective player, say I leveled up my warrior, filled it with the valor and a good spec (Specifically I like the concept of running minorish points in the tank trees for some of the hp/damage reduction stuff) Would it be that I could end up being extremely effective as say a shard carrier, or for holding the fang with superior hps and a more defenisve orientated set of souls?

    I realise warriors are regarded solo as probably the squishiest of the classes, but with external healing + spec would it not yield higher hp and potentially higher mitigation than others?

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Its not entirely broken... I still have a lot of fun in pvp and I just recently hit 50 as a warrior. Still wearing blues and a green or two so im nowhere near the gear of most players but I feel I hold my own in group based pvp. The soul system makes it one of the best experiences ive had in an mmo because your never really sure what the players your going against are going to throw at you. To me it makes it more reaction based than most other games. The wf's are pretty well thought out and offer some good diversity in their objectives. Some classes right now are going to beat you 9 out of 10 times (yes pyro's) but if your running of by yourself to fight anyone in team based pvp you deserve to die anyway. Stick with your teammates and focus on the objectives and you should have a good time in the wf's.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched
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    i usually run with a warrior and a cpl clerics. i am a cleric myself. we rarely have heals, and hope one of the pugs is healing. me and the other clerics all have the sacred hierloom of eth trinket that is extremely overpowered in pvp. when combined with the justicar soul, it is constantly healing 3 people for 6-800 health.

    warriors do massive damage. have great cc. if you want to do the tanky type, i would suggest vk + paly. you will mess with clerics and mages, and be tough to kill. if you have a healer, u will be close to impossible to kill.

    i personally think healing clerics should hold the fang, as they can heal themselves as needed. u would be able to peel people off the cleric and that would be your strength in pvp.

    one of the warrior's i party with is always 1 in kbs, unless we have a pyro with us :P so dont think that warriors are out, because they are not. the whining u see stems from them being excessively overpowered when the game first released, they got nerfed and now they are pissed they cant two shot people. the real kicker is that pyros got buffed at the same time, and can now 1-2 shot people. i understand their pain.

    the key to pvp is working as a team. if you have that under your belt, pvp will be fun and rewarding. you will rarely lose.

    i qued 2 times this morning solo, lost both matches. asked my guild if they wanted to pvp, got a group of 5 together, and won 12 matches in a row. if that doesnt prove that teamwork is the way to go i do not know what will

    currently riftblades are quite powerful in pvp. i would recommend learning the ins and out of the class while you are leveling up. save your favor also. that way when u ding 50 you can purchases some of the rank 1/2 set.

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara krilly's Avatar
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    If your only pvp experience is from games that are pve with stuck on pvp, like wow or EQ or whatever, you will like it fine.

    If you've played and liked proper pvp games like daoc, GW, war, eve etc.. then you will be disappointed
    Mage - steel cannon
    Rogue - tin pistol
    Warrior - glass machine gun
    Cleric - adamantium machine gun

  9. #9
    Sword of Telara
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    To some degree you can overcome most of the imbalances by being better than your opponent.

    Take a riftblade vs a cleric. In a warfront, you wont win this often because of often healers stay with their group, and will have help, etc. However, in 1v1, if you're flat out better than he is, you can kick his ***.

    The problem is, pvp in rift is confined mostly to warfronts, world pvp is getting more difficult as they increase guards in contested location, population dwindles due to the natural decline in new players after release, and the fact that its just inefficient next to warfont grinding.

    Overall, in a warfront, you will see mages and clerics doing better based on player skill than rogues and warriors. I personally believe that rogues and warriors have higher skill ceilings than the other two, but you must outplay a mana bar as an energy user to win. In a group scenario, the range, healing and AOE powers offset your skill to a large degree, making it difficult to compete in a lot of cases. Note, a lot, not all.

    The worlds best warrior/rogue will probably kill the worlds best mage/cleric.

    10 average mages will kick the **** out of 10 great warriors/rogues.

    10 decent clerics will live forever.
    Last edited by Corebot; 04-30-2011 at 12:13 PM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Magnos's Avatar
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    This game is fine, It's doing far better than most games do after launch. I've done my share of whining here as well. The bottom line is this is a young game with a lot of potential. So far the development team is churning out content as best they can for both sides, and they listen to us.

    If there is any issue with this game it IS the community (not totally excluding myself here either) because once people learn that enough of them gripe their demands will be met. It's my hope that sooner or later the Rift team will draw a line in the sand to just how much control they'll let players have over their game. While player feedback can help a ton in developing massive online titles, it can also do just as much damage, and over time the negative effects show more than the positives.

    This game is good, it will get better IF the players and the developers learn to get along.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    I totally enjoyed PvP until L50!

    Imo at 50 you go pre-made or you dont go at all....as a healing cleric I can barely jump down the cliff in Black Garden before I have to relase my soul. Im sure prestige and valor will change that....but the grind is unforgiving when starting from scratch.

    Pre-mades will priority target players that makes a difference.....I got 5 WF's or so, now its just "bang" and im dead.

    I totally understand that so many clerics are reluctant to heal in WF's....its like a mark of death;-)

    So...get friends and go pre-made;-)

    Cheers

  12. #12
    Telaran Thelen's Avatar
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    Don't buy into the "PuGs always lose" propaganda. When I PuG (which is often), its pretty close to a 50% win rate, and when I queue with my Mage friend (he plays Warlock/Stormcaller and does very well) and Warrior friend we lose only to a select few groups from Seastone and Spitescar. If you are good at PvP, you will be able to overcome the balance discrepancies.

    As for clerics dying at rank 50, its a spec issue IMO. I've run 51 Warden/5-13 Templar/10-2 Purifier from prestige 1 to 3.5 and never had any issues with being squishy. I can easy keep myself up against 2-3 DPS/Tanks if they aren't coordinating CC and drains, and with that spec you can pretty much kite your way out of anything and still heal an entire group of players.
    Last edited by Thelen; 04-30-2011 at 01:20 PM.
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