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Thread: Deep Concerns for PvP in 1.2

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Default Deep Concerns for PvP in 1.2

    My thoughts on the proposed changes for 1.2 and their impact on PvP.



    First Concern:

    Here's the premade setup:

    (1) 51PT Warlord spec'd warrior (5 target pull)
    (2) Pyros
    (1) SC
    (1) Healing Cleric


    Rotation goes something like this:

    Warrior runs up and 5 target pulls (20M range). First Pyro hits his GTAOE lockdown on the pull location producing a 90% snare effect for 8 secs. 2nd Pyro drops backdraft, followed by a lot of LoL's as the enemy team is melted to death with little to no recourse. This tactic takes very little effort to coordinate but takes a disproportionate combination of skill, cooldowns, and coordination to counter. This is not a good design for PvP unless family type AOE's get adjusted so they cannot stack (for PvP). By family I mean channeled GTAOE vs other target based AOE's. So multiple channeled GTAOEs would not stack overlapping damage in the same area.


    The members of the Trion team that came from mythic/Warhammer can surely weigh in on what a bad idea this is. Bomb groups ran wild there for almost two years and were a big contributor to player dissatisfaction, and combined with other issues, ultimately led to cascading player population decline. This tactic should not be made viable in Rift. The Trion team is treading dangerous ground with this. I'm reminded of a saying a friend from another game once told me. "Its not a game if the outcome is certain". Please keep that in mind as you consider the larger impacts of new abilities and the tactics they enable.


    Second Concern:

    I play a mage and a warrior and frankly Pyro single target burst potential is too high compared to all other callings/souls.

    There is no appreciable Pyro nerf in this patch as I believe is needed.

    Lowering the damage reduction conferred by GoS is not helpful as valor changes will produce more net mitigation than in 1.1.

    The 10% damage reduction while in GoS is also bogus when the PvP gear is being buffed to T2 dungeon DPS set stat levels.

    Perpetual immunity to CC is something that should not be available to any calling/soul. It's a poor design choice, and it certainly should not be available to the biggest single target burst soul in the game (from range to boot). It simply synergizes too well. Pyros already have a get out of jail free card with Flicker. Do we seriously need perpetual immunity as well? If you insist that this type of effect needs to exist in the game, then at least put it high up in the Archmage PvP tree so that there is a real opportunity cost to get this very powerful effect. And while you're at it make the effect similarly available to the other callings in their respective PvP trees.

    It's bad for the game to have any soul be capable of insta-gibbing anyone of equal level. Just like titan strike was bad for the game so it was appropriately changed (5 second AoE stuns rightfully cause serious rage in the player base). Changes need to be made to Fulminate. I would also support modifying the effect of the murder ball or removing it entirely from warfronts.

    Another bad thing for the game are stun locks; However, I feel stun lock is being addressed mostly with the buff to Break Free (5 seconds of cc immunity).

    One last thing that doesn't seem quite right is the design choice that enables assassin rouges to escape any fight where they chose the wrong target at the wrong time. They already have the benefit to pick their fights and to start those fights at maximum advantage. To then be able to get away with no consequence is a really poor mechanic. I'm not against having a breakaway escape ability, but if you make a mistake and choose the wrong target there should be consequences. I would propose that slip away goes on a 15-20 sec CD when the assassin attacks a target from stealth with an opener. By doing this you provide consequences to assassin rogues who pick the wrong fight while still maintaining an effective escape when the assassin is attacked out in the open or is outed from stealth before they had the opportunity to attack.
    Last edited by Fyrstarter; 04-26-2011 at 10:30 AM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    179

    Default

    One last thing that doesn't seem quite right is the design choice that enables assassin rouges to escape any fight where they chose the wrong target at the wrong time. They already have the benefit to pick their fights and to start those fights at maximum advantage. To then be able to get away with no consequence is a really poor mechanic. I'm not against having a breakaway escape ability, but if you make a mistake and choose the wrong target there should be consequences. I would propose that slip away goes on a 15-20 sec CD when the assassin attacks a target from stealth with an opener. By doing this you provide consequences to assassin rogues who pick the wrong fight while still maintaining an effective escape when the assassin is attacked out in the open or is outed from stealth before they had the opportunity to attack.
    Have you seen the ability tooltip for Slip Away?
    http://rift.zam.com/en/search.html?q=Slip+Away
    2 Minute Cooldown = Not at any time we feel like it.
    If a rogue is using Slip Away against you, it's because they are going to die, and they don't want you to continue hitting them, so they drop your target, and hope to god they can kill you before you can retarget.

    also, after we come out of stealth, it resets our normal stealth cooldown, so we can't just restealth right away. Besides, I rarely use slip away, unless I need to run away/heal or get off another opener on a target ( ie: jagged strike wore off ). Also, almost every class has a dot, and almost every one of those dots are 10 seconds+. Which means, I have 7 seconds of not using Slip Away at least, before I can even THINK about using it, or i'm just going to get forced out of stealth due to the damage tick. I have to wait basically until I see the 3 sec timer on that dot.

    Try it sometime, make sure that your dots on a rogue never fall below 5 sec, and they will probably never run away, they will use the ability to get off another opener and make you drop your target focus, but if they try to run, they will probably end up coming out of stealth anyway.
    Last edited by Darkener; 04-26-2011 at 10:38 AM.

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