+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 49

Thread: Valor and PvP soul = imbalanced PvP

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    19

    Default Valor and PvP soul = imbalanced PvP

    I have two level 50 characters on a PvE server. (Warrior and Cleric) I am not a full-time PvP player, but I participated quite a bit in PvP as I was levelling up both characters. I really enjoyed PvP under level 50. However, I have some serious concerns about what I'm seeing in warfronts at level 50.

    To me, PvP should be about one player's skill vs another player's skill. Or one group's vs another group's. It should not be about who is higher ranked. It should not be about who has better gear.

    I realize that this is an MMO, and MMOs these days revolve around gear grinds. That's fine. I have no problem with favor/prestige rewards for PvP players that's equivalent to end-game gear from raids/dungeons.

    But do we really need valor, and do we need to rank lock the PvP soul? Do we need a PvP specific advantage over those who do not PvP all the time? The point of PvP is to fight against people who challenge you... If you give rank 6 people a considerable advantage over rank 1 people, doesn't that defeat the purpose?


    Stack up the power of the PvP soul with the damage reduction of valor, and the gear benefits that P5 and P6 people get, and you have a recipe for stupidly imbalanced PvP. From what I have seen, PvP players want a mostly balanced battlefield where skill and coordination reign supreme. If there is any doubt that skill and coordination are the principal factors in victory, then the game fails at PvP, and those looking for real PvP will look elsewhere.

    There will, undoubtedly, be people who ask, "what's the point of PvP if you don't get an advantage over time." I would counter those people by saying that they should have the advantage of experience and skill, and the point of PvP is competition, not gaining gear or soul advantages over other people. I agree that time invested in PvP should yield rewards equal to time invested in PvE. I don't think that the rewards should give the PvP players an advantage over those who have put in equal time in PvE.

    So, I suggest getting rid of valor, buff the stats on PvP gear, and get rid of the rank restrictions on the PvP soul. I believe that those changes will make PvP much more balanced, and more fun for everyone involved.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    26

    Default

    I see what you're saying, but...

    If a player puts more time into his craft (whether it be PvE or PvP) he/she should be rewarded with items that advance him/her.

    Sure, there might be a large gap between a p1 player and p6 player (even if a p1 player has all the skill in the world), but a p1 player who puts the time can obtain all that p6 gear.

    Valor is probably the only balanced thing they could've added. If they gave PvP gear +endurance and continued to increase the dmg on PvE gear, what would people choose to get? If they gave PvP gear more dmg to players, imagine the outcry then?

    Rift (like other MMOs) has implemented a scheme (that hopefully works) where PvP players will have the advantage in a PvP situation, but not be able to jump into a raid with that same gear and dominate. (at the moment it's the other way around. You just from a raid to pvp and dominate against any prestige)

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Kelqor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HunterAP View Post
    I have two level 50 characters on a PvE server. ...
    So, I suggest getting rid of valor, buff the stats on PvP gear, and get rid of the rank restrictions on the PvP soul. I believe that those changes will make PvP much more balanced, and more fun for everyone involved.
    Very well written, unlike nerf crying posts out there, /prop.

    However, I would have to disagree with your suggestion because:
    1) You are an PvE'er by nature and here trying to request for change for PvP stat. Therefore, your thoughts are naturally biased.
    2) PvE'er does raid for gear to be better in PvE, why can't PvP'er PvP and at the same time get better.
    3) The point of PvP gears is to counter the advantage of PvE'er gears. Yes, PvPer may have better skill in PvP due to practice, but it definitely will not be able to offset the different between T1 PvE and T3 PVE gear. This is to assume PvPers even attempt to get T1 PvE gear.
    4) PvPer won't be able to compete much with PvEer in raid settings, it makes sense that PvEer will also have disadvantage when it comes to PvP'ing. You have home court advantage at home court, so does PvPers.
    5) In MMO, ones that spent more time in the game will 'likely' to gain advantage over someone doesn't. This is true for PvE raiding, and true for PvP as well. It's totally acceptable to see a newbie at R1 to lose someone at R6. Again, this is the nature of MMORPG.

    Likewise, some of us PvPer wants to PvE sometimes, can we remove toughness so I can tank Greenscale with PvP gear? Right now, I hate how after 1months at lvl 50, I am not allowed to tank greenscale while someone just dinged 50 2 weeks ago is able to. Toughness and Valor are 2 unique stats for which direction a player pick, let's not water them down to be exact same thing.

    You chose your path, I chose mine. Let's accept that we are different and each has different advantages.

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara xaed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,212

    Default

    Can we also make sure that the PvE'rs have to grind WFs to get top end PvE gear? /sacrasm

    To each his own, a player should and will get rewarded for the area of the game he/she chooses to invest in.
    A PRO QUOTE BELOW:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stigas View Post
    You seem to be happy with Eradicate. I'm glad. The longer it stays in, the better. It's a non-threat spec. You're there to Purge things. I can avoid that by either making sure you're focused first, to which you have no answer, or I can go Pyro or SC and let you Eradicate all day.

  5. #5
    Telaran ennea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HunterAP View Post
    I don't think that the rewards should give the PvP players an advantage over those who have put in equal time in PvE.
    i will keep this only, so what advantage should have the pvp gear and ranks if not against players?
    to be good in pve?
    also as i spend my time in rift 90% pvping, would you like to carry me to any top/end tier dungeon/raid with my infernal pvp gear? i dont think so

    no i think people that choose to invest their playtime to a specific area in the game must have a reward/advantage for it. Also cant wait for the pvp gear to be buffed for killing easier pve-geared people.
    rogue for life

  6. #6
    Plane Touched FxyO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    288

    Default

    yeah we should all die in a single stun and take pve balanced damage from casters and warriors.

    this thread is officially stupid.
    Gladiators Warrior Rogue Hunter Priest RIP Arena
    Fixa - Prestige 6 Stormcaller - deleted because defiant are useless.

  7. #7
    Sez
    Sez is offline
    Ascendant Sez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HunterAP View Post
    To me, PvP should be about one player's skill vs another player's skill.
    That's where I stopped. This game, all MMOs, favor gear over skill.

    Sorry. You should try ping-pong.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

    - Rogue Lead - <Gestalt> - Defiant - Dayblind Server -

  8. #8
    Banned Soulstitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,047

    Default

    Anothing thing I have been calling for since BETA is that they need to separate warfronts by RANK. Rank 6s should not be grinding Rank 1s for gear.

  9. #9
    Ascendant exLupo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,592

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HunterAP View Post
    There will, undoubtedly, be people who ask, "what's the point of PvP if you don't get an advantage over time."
    In part it is grind carrot. Players of MMOs like new shinies with which to outfit themselves. The other part is to combat PvE gear escalation as stated above. Think back to AQ40 geared players in vanilla WoW battlegrounds. Without a relevant PvE limiting stat they had free reign to stomp over anyone because they spent tons of time in PvE. The gear and soul system is there to offset that advantage and also provide another balancing tool so dev can fiddle more heavily with PvP without impacting PvE.

    If you look at your post in the context of the Ten Ton Hammer interview discussing valor/pvp soul, you pretty much sum up exactly why the system exists as it does.

    I'd say "go play an fps if you want raw button mashing 'skill'" but it's rare to find one anymore that doesn't have some kind of leveling or customization. Really, the only pure genre left is fighting games as RTS are getting into the level/customization track as well.
    There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die at the end of your blade.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    179

    Default

    I think the biggest thing to realize with Valor, is that it's there to try and balance out PvE gear in a PvP environment.

    The patch should help, but i'm sure that whatever they do won't be the final step. They'll tune it more or less as the game progresses as needed.

    As you get new gear, you _can_ use pvp gear in pve, but there are stats on the gear that you don't get as much of (like hp/valor vs. hit/focus and whatnot).

  11. #11
    Ascendant Xvvt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,924

    Default

    As a rank 6 player, I agree with the OP. Remove the restriction on the pvp soul, it discourages new players from joining in on the fun.

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara xaed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,212

    Default

    Just another PvE carebear QQing about being able to PvE to PvP, move along.

    /thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xvvt View Post
    As a rank 6 player, I agree with the OP. Remove the restriction on the pvp soul, it discourages new players from joining in on the fun.
    I agree, seems like the ONLY soul with restrictions is the PvP soul. Players should be able to build the toon they want and not have to grind to do it. You don't see any "oh you have to clear t1 before you can unlock your 51 point ability" or whatnot. another example of PvP getting shafted.
    Last edited by xaed; 04-20-2011 at 10:17 AM.
    A PRO QUOTE BELOW:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stigas View Post
    You seem to be happy with Eradicate. I'm glad. The longer it stays in, the better. It's a non-threat spec. You're there to Purge things. I can avoid that by either making sure you're focused first, to which you have no answer, or I can go Pyro or SC and let you Eradicate all day.

  13. #13
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shenghu View Post
    If a player puts more time into his craft (whether it be PvE or PvP) he/she should be rewarded with items that advance him/her.
    But the problem is many of those people DID NOT put more time into their craft.. they afk'ed to prestige 6 in warfronts frustrating the other side.. and now they act like they are hot stuff because they can kill players with their ill gotten goods while those who couldn't be in warfronts 24x7 are left behind..
    "Power is neccessary because conflict will never dissappear"

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara xaed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,212

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LordOberon View Post
    But the problem is many of those people DID NOT put more time into their craft.. they afk'ed to prestige 6 in warfronts frustrating the other side.. and now they act like they are hot stuff because they can kill players with their ill gotten goods while those who couldn't be in warfronts 24x7 are left behind..
    players bot their way to 50 too, players bot their crafting to master too, hell, if some nut is crazy enough to write a bot script for dungeons, you'll see that too. see what I did there?
    A PRO QUOTE BELOW:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stigas View Post
    You seem to be happy with Eradicate. I'm glad. The longer it stays in, the better. It's a non-threat spec. You're there to Purge things. I can avoid that by either making sure you're focused first, to which you have no answer, or I can go Pyro or SC and let you Eradicate all day.

  15. #15
    Telaran Thelen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, Ontario
    Posts
    94

    Default

    I always liked systems where higher ranked players dropped higher ranked gear (or currency) when you killed them. Rather than having to grind arbitrary amounts of kills to reach gear.
    Thelen 50 Cleric
    GM of Dexteram Telara

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts