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Thread: Valor and PvP soul = imbalanced PvP

  1. #31
    Rift Disciple Geechee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordOberon View Post
    But the problem is many of those people DID NOT put more time into their craft.. they afk'ed to prestige 6 in warfronts frustrating the other side.. and now they act like they are hot stuff because they can kill players with their ill gotten goods while those who couldn't be in warfronts 24x7 are left behind..
    How many PVERS are carried by their raid, or go afk during trash mobs? Hell, how many just push 1 or 2 buttons with macroed rotations while they surf the web, watch tv, eat food, while their raid kills the same scripted encounter over and over again? The majority of R6 players earned their gear and you know whats it's a hell of a lot tougher than your precious PVE ********.
    Last edited by Geechee; 04-21-2011 at 08:28 PM.
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  2. #32
    Rift Disciple fineaid's Avatar
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    i agree lets get rid of valor and keep scaling up SP for mages, or any dmg/survivability, i want to run around and get 6k fulminates in my face within months. Makes sense right?

    if they got rid of valor, not a single person would pvp due to Pve gear being inherently better at dps and healing and everything you want it to be in PvP. SO if you want to come to our arena, then you will have to suffer and be at a disadvantage until u get the favor gear

  3. #33
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterAP View Post
    I have two level 50 characters on a PvE server. (Warrior and Cleric) I am not a full-time PvP player, but I participated quite a bit in PvP as I was levelling up both characters. I really enjoyed PvP under level 50. However, I have some serious concerns about what I'm seeing in warfronts at level 50.

    To me, PvP should be about one player's skill vs another player's skill. Or one group's vs another group's. It should not be about who is higher ranked. It should not be about who has better gear.

    I realize that this is an MMO, and MMOs these days revolve around gear grinds. That's fine. I have no problem with favor/prestige rewards for PvP players that's equivalent to end-game gear from raids/dungeons.

    But do we really need valor, and do we need to rank lock the PvP soul? Do we need a PvP specific advantage over those who do not PvP all the time? The point of PvP is to fight against people who challenge you... If you give rank 6 people a considerable advantage over rank 1 people, doesn't that defeat the purpose?


    Stack up the power of the PvP soul with the damage reduction of valor, and the gear benefits that P5 and P6 people get, and you have a recipe for stupidly imbalanced PvP. From what I have seen, PvP players want a mostly balanced battlefield where skill and coordination reign supreme. If there is any doubt that skill and coordination are the principal factors in victory, then the game fails at PvP, and those looking for real PvP will look elsewhere.

    There will, undoubtedly, be people who ask, "what's the point of PvP if you don't get an advantage over time." I would counter those people by saying that they should have the advantage of experience and skill, and the point of PvP is competition, not gaining gear or soul advantages over other people. I agree that time invested in PvP should yield rewards equal to time invested in PvE. I don't think that the rewards should give the PvP players an advantage over those who have put in equal time in PvE.

    So, I suggest getting rid of valor, buff the stats on PvP gear, and get rid of the rank restrictions on the PvP soul. I believe that those changes will make PvP much more balanced, and more fun for everyone involved.
    I agree true PvP'ers want balanced skill based pvp and not rewards from vendors in a PVE time grind on sandbox style warfronts.

    What TRUE PVPERS WANT! is world pvp with a world ranking system for kills in the field. To get rewards for being the best of the best real world killers(and the rewards are to make up for the Bullseye that will surely come from their infamy making them targets of many group ganks). Must the rewards compare to PVE certainly, WTF should a dungeon raider be able to faceroll the servers most skilled pvper simply because he outgeared him.

    But what true PvPer's want is TRUE PVP not ready set go pvp for the prepared which cost you nothing and where deaths are expected NO. But an incentive for other players to seek me out and TRY to kill me while I'm lvling, where skill is truelly tested and reaction and adapation mean everything. It's in the field where anything goes that true skill is tested.

  4. #34
    Ascendant Xvvt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnova View Post
    I didn't say killing blows I said kill count.
    You get credit for plenty of kills while holding shards, healing, running flags.

    If someone has a ridiculously low kill count at higher prestige levels they have gained rank by faking.
    I guess you would have to define kill count. I know my groups healer has substantially lower kill count because the range on getting credit hasn't been very far.

  5. #35
    Prophet of Telara Celestian's Avatar
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    I said the same thing early on as well. We don't need both valor and pvp souls. I'd rather they ditch valor and let us get perhaps some extra points for pvp souls.

    The defensive parts of pvp souls + valor + some class souls is ridiculous right now.

    It could also go a long way to allowing pvp and pvers to do either or without having to grind out both sets. I know I don't wanna go grind dungeons just to be able to help out someone once in a while.
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  6. #36
    Soulwalker DrowNoble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstitch View Post
    Anothing thing I have been calling for since BETA is that they need to separate warfronts by RANK. Rank 6s should not be grinding Rank 1s for gear.
    You have my vote for that.

  7. #37
    Shield of Telara Gnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xvvt View Post
    I guess you would have to define kill count. I know my groups healer has substantially lower kill count because the range on getting credit hasn't been very far.
    Let's see, if a beakers kill count in a WF is 40 and a AFKers is 0-5, don't you think that could be distinguished. If someone is rank 6 without 10K kills they afk botted.
    Last edited by Gnova; 04-22-2011 at 12:15 AM.

  8. #38
    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstitch View Post
    Anothing thing I have been calling for since BETA is that they need to separate warfronts by RANK. Rank 6s should not be grinding Rank 1s for gear.
    That is a really great idea. Can you post it on the suggestion forum? The devs do read it.

  9. #39
    Champion of Telara
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    i like how "pvpers" argue that pvers get their gear by "easymode" pve, when in fact pvp in this game is not different in any way - you dont lose anything when you die, warfornts are even much safer than pve, because you dont even lose soul when you die, its not about anything, but time.
    This must be Gersh.
    Stop trolling.
    Die. Just die.

  10. #40
    Rift Chaser Bahatsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnova View Post
    Trion should just go through the higher prestige ranks and "adjust" people with high prestige ranks and very low kill counts.
    Think before you post...

    How many kills does a True healer get?

    How many kills does someone holding a control point or Fang get?

    Not as many as the people fighting/farming in some random spot.

  11. #41
    Rift Chaser Bahatsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechkin View Post
    i like how "pvpers" argue that pvers get their gear by "easymode" pve, when in fact pvp in this game is not different in any way - you dont lose anything when you die, warfornts are even much safer than pve, because you dont even lose soul when you die, its not about anything, but time.
    Both arguments are silly.

    Both PvP and high end PvE require some level of skill to pull off. Neither are easy mode. People can cry "But all people do is Bot WFs" But in reality not that many people do and while it is lame you cant judge an entire catagory of players based off of this.

    In fact it is MUCH harder and longer to gear up in PvP.

    yes you lose soul when you die... But i bet you get ALOT more Plat. In PvE to pay for that than i do in PvP

  12. #42
    Ascendant Delphya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterAP View Post
    I have two level 50 characters on a PvE server. (Warrior and Cleric) I am not a full-time PvP player, but I participated quite a bit in PvP as I was levelling up both characters. I really enjoyed PvP under level 50. However, I have some serious concerns about what I'm seeing in warfronts at level 50.

    To me, PvP should be about one player's skill vs another player's skill. Or one group's vs another group's. It should not be about who is higher ranked. It should not be about who has better gear.

    I realize that this is an MMO, and MMOs these days revolve around gear grinds. That's fine. I have no problem with favor/prestige rewards for PvP players that's equivalent to end-game gear from raids/dungeons.

    But do we really need valor, and do we need to rank lock the PvP soul? Do we need a PvP specific advantage over those who do not PvP all the time? The point of PvP is to fight against people who challenge you... If you give rank 6 people a considerable advantage over rank 1 people, doesn't that defeat the purpose?


    Stack up the power of the PvP soul with the damage reduction of valor, and the gear benefits that P5 and P6 people get, and you have a recipe for stupidly imbalanced PvP. From what I have seen, PvP players want a mostly balanced battlefield where skill and coordination reign supreme. If there is any doubt that skill and coordination are the principal factors in victory, then the game fails at PvP, and those looking for real PvP will look elsewhere.

    There will, undoubtedly, be people who ask, "what's the point of PvP if you don't get an advantage over time." I would counter those people by saying that they should have the advantage of experience and skill, and the point of PvP is competition, not gaining gear or soul advantages over other people. I agree that time invested in PvP should yield rewards equal to time invested in PvE. I don't think that the rewards should give the PvP players an advantage over those who have put in equal time in PvE.

    So, I suggest getting rid of valor, buff the stats on PvP gear, and get rid of the rank restrictions on the PvP soul. I believe that those changes will make PvP much more balanced, and more fun for everyone involved.
    The way to fix this is to force ranked PVP in warfronts.
    This means that once you go to a higher rank you will NEVER be in a warfront with someone of a lower rank. This may mean that higher ranks will not get many warfronts until normal people can reach those ranks. I see no problem with this.
    I don't like mean people, rude people and people who are not nice.

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  13. #43
    Soulwalker elenchus's Avatar
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    i suggest a drastically different approach. remove material rewards (items) from pvp all together. or make the pvp rewards benefit pve instead. the best fps games of all time have no such thing as these material rewards. the reward is in knowing you are better, it's an ego thing, it's why nerds like myself play pvp - so we can be better than other people ... nobody ever admits it, but this the real reason people pvp. the rewards just make this ego boost a bit more ... cheap and whorish. give us pure uncontaminated combat please. if it was designed well it will be fun enough to survive on it's own.

  14. #44
    Telaran
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    PvPers should get gear for doing PvP but I think Trion should possibly experiment with eliminating the point distribution restrictions on the PvP souls. Let the higher ranked players have gear but at least let us lower ranks have some use in PVP to our groups.

  15. #45
    Ascendant Acex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterAP View Post
    I have two level 50 characters on a PvE server. (Warrior and Cleric) I am not a full-time PvP player, but I participated quite a bit in PvP as I was levelling up both characters. I really enjoyed PvP under level 50. However, I have some serious concerns about what I'm seeing in warfronts at level 50.

    To me, PvP should be about one player's skill vs another player's skill. Or one group's vs another group's. It should not be about who is higher ranked. It should not be about who has better gear.

    I realize that this is an MMO, and MMOs these days revolve around gear grinds. That's fine. I have no problem with favor/prestige rewards for PvP players that's equivalent to end-game gear from raids/dungeons.

    But do we really need valor, and do we need to rank lock the PvP soul? Do we need a PvP specific advantage over those who do not PvP all the time? The point of PvP is to fight against people who challenge you... If you give rank 6 people a considerable advantage over rank 1 people, doesn't that defeat the purpose?


    Stack up the power of the PvP soul with the damage reduction of valor, and the gear benefits that P5 and P6 people get, and you have a recipe for stupidly imbalanced PvP. From what I have seen, PvP players want a mostly balanced battlefield where skill and coordination reign supreme. If there is any doubt that skill and coordination are the principal factors in victory, then the game fails at PvP, and those looking for real PvP will look elsewhere.

    There will, undoubtedly, be people who ask, "what's the point of PvP if you don't get an advantage over time." I would counter those people by saying that they should have the advantage of experience and skill, and the point of PvP is competition, not gaining gear or soul advantages over other people. I agree that time invested in PvP should yield rewards equal to time invested in PvE. I don't think that the rewards should give the PvP players an advantage over those who have put in equal time in PvE.

    So, I suggest getting rid of valor, buff the stats on PvP gear, and get rid of the rank restrictions on the PvP soul. I believe that those changes will make PvP much more balanced, and more fun for everyone involved.
    When i see something like this, it's like pver want to be in pvp as much good not putting any effort in pvp.
    U choose what u want pve or pvp, want both then grind for both.
    Why u don't qq that u have advantage in your t3 gears in pve over these who have only t1 gears?

    I'm sure that those who prefer pvp 90% will want also gear advantage and grind for it(even those who are r1).
    But 90% pve'rs will want to pvp be only skill v skill and no gear.

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