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Thread: The life of a Cleric pugging Warfronts:

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    Default The life of a Cleric pugging Warfronts:

    This is the unvarnished account of what exactly happens when you join a warfront as a cleric. To those of you saying that clerics are too strong or they're invulnerable or they stole your lunch money or they're picked over you for volleyball, take note:

    I join a Warfront - Let's say codex. I am always in my farming spec because I PvP out in stillmoor while waiting for queues and kill stuff for quest items while I wait. As such, I show up as yellow on the raid frames. The first thing I will see in /raid or /warfront is something akin to this from someone I've never seen before:

    "lol another dps cleric, gg guys"

    The funnier thing is, I was probably going to heal anyways, based on the team composition - We have one other healer in bad gear in a 15 man codex, so we probably need some extra healing. Why not, I continue to go Codex, our team splits up in random directions as usual, 3 heaing towards vault, 2 towards statue, 2 sit afk at base (bots) 2 go scope and 6 go codex. A rogue with green gear probably specced riftstalker with 8k hp grabs the damage buff and off we go.

    I start healing then realize that a rogue is on me after maybe 2 spells, despite being off to the top of the cliff. Ok, fine. I detaunt, pop a shield, get into a better position. Stun, stun. Fel blades are on me - That's usual, my health is dropping a bit slower due to detaunt going on - A warrior charges up - Bullrush - Stunned. Ok, this is bad. I pop Healer's Covenant and healer's haste - Along with activating my big autocrit - It hits for 1.1k (AMAZING) which is gone in the next half second of the rogue/warrior hitting me -Stunned again. Ok.. really bad, I break free, pop healing breath when I do ..hits for 600, then divine call for 900 to get protect the flock up.., this is about 8-9 seconds into the fight, my health is hovering at about 20-30%, the mages around me are starting to notice the 2 people beating on me and start dotting them up. I frantically pop a health potion and then try to cast an invocation, even with serendipity up - I die. 10-12 seconds in, popping all my cooldowns, I am looking at the resurrect button - In full (bad) pvp gear with 21 points in our terrible templar tree.

    This is the kind of combat a cleric faces - A constant melee train based on having a green name in raid frames. 1 good player forces you on the defensive. 2 kill you. 3 overwhelm you. Anything else and you are dust on the wind, just like any other player.

    Like everything else, this shifts based on how your premade is balanced - 3 healing clerics will be exceedingly hard to kill. Likewise, 3 warriors will hit incredibly hard. 3 mages will do an overwhelming amount of aoe, and 3 rogues can literally lock down 3 healers at once if timed right.

    And, like everything else, everything depends on 3 things:

    1) Gear
    2) Personal skill level
    3) Coordination

    If the rogue and warrior were bad players - I probably could've walked away from that encounter alive, the mage would've noticed in time, my incoming damage would have been less, and I wouldn't have to worry. Unfortunately, they were from the same premade and knew how to hit the same target in the right way, so I was pressured and died.

    It doesn't matter what a cleric does anyways - You are the #1 target in the warfront, whether you are healing or dpsing (Unless you go justicar, and then everyone simply ignores you) and you will constantly have a Warrior, a Rogue, a pet boar, a skeleton, a crocodile and a legion of mathos representatives humping you through the entire fight.

    If you run with a good premade, it's great - I've had games where stuff is actually cleared off me and I can damage/heal without a great deal of trouble, it's fun actually getting to play the game. If you pug (as I so often do, playing in Aussie time where it's 4am for most people when I get home) you are in for a world of pain.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Last edited by Joyous; 04-20-2011 at 03:22 AM.
    Ugar - Spitescar - PvP

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    Not really true at all, a warrior and 1 rogue don't force you defensive unless the rogue puts anathema on you at a good time, which I guarantee you most rogues do not. I can tank a dumb nightblade+warrior easily without even detaunting.
    Dancer/Yeah of Briarcliff

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    Rift Disciple LutherVanguard's Avatar
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    I'm addicted to Anathema, I cast it on any healer i see or caster if i cant find the healer. WooT
    We rode on the winds of the rising storm, We ran to the sounds of the thunder, We danced among the lightning bolts, and tore the world asunder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faction View Post
    Not really true at all, a warrior and 1 rogue don't force you defensive unless the rogue puts anathema on you at a good time, which I guarantee you most rogues do not. I can tank a dumb nightblade+warrior easily without even detaunting.
    Maybe I just play on a group where rogues and warriors actually know what they're doing?

    Pretty sure every NB knows how to use anathema.. like luther said, it's pretty much always there

    Also, forgot to mention I also popped greater empowerment - Healed another 1.1k somewhere in there.
    Ugar - Spitescar - PvP

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    Rift Disciple Moop212's Avatar
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    helps to put the snare buff on your self, and when they get snared use your snare removal and knock them back and kite...

    Also move up to where your dps can see them as they often get tunnel visioned, and it will allow you to aoe heal them while healing yourself if you spec right. Perhaps you just need to l2 kite...
    Galithor - 50 Cleric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moop212 View Post
    helps to put the snare buff on your self, and when they get snared use your snare removal and knock them back and kite...

    Also move up to where your dps can see them as they often get tunnel visioned, and it will allow you to aoe heal them while healing yourself if you spec right. Perhaps you just need to l2 kite...
    I wasn't in warden, so my "kiting" consists of moving at 30% speed. Like I said, I was right up beside where mages where, in theory, they could've turned around instead of aoeing the flag like morons.

    My "snare removal" consists of "pushing dispel and hope it dispels one of the 8 effects on me after a rogue has jumped me", which isn't very effective.

    I have a warden spec too - The same scenario happens with 3 stuns and 2 people hitting me. Not like melee are rooted for any reason while attacking me, heh, they can move too.
    Ugar - Spitescar - PvP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyous View Post
    Maybe I just play on a group where rogues and warriors actually know what they're doing?

    Pretty sure every NB knows how to use anathema.. like luther said, it's pretty much always there

    Also, forgot to mention I also popped greater empowerment - Healed another 1.1k somewhere in there.

    No i'm pretty sure you just blow your cooldowns at ******ed times. You need to use healers covenant the second you see anathema and spam healing spray to waste it while they do 0 damage to you and you don't fall behind on healing, not when you're already low.

    You're not a good cleric if you die to 2 bad players regulary.
    Dancer/Yeah of Briarcliff

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    Plane Touched Shaynaro's Avatar
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    This made me jiggle. 13 points in Templar, no Senticar.
    Codex.. Watch who's in, recognize only one name, don't know any of the other people in my team, but do recognize 2 rogues, 1 pyro and 1 cleric in the opossing team. We have 2 mages, they have 5.

    We rush Codex. Pyros have already gone Siege Tank mode on the cliffs on both sides and start shooting. Let the healing begin. For some reason after Touch the Light and HC has been used I am unable to heal anybody with more then Healing's Breath and instants. Out of cooldowns and Healing breath on cooldown. Start casting a 3s HI on a target at 70% hp. By the time it ends target is dead. Frustrated a bit, I type /s "god damn pyros". Mistaaaaaaake! Next second I am bullrushed and see a fireball towards me. Pop Break Free and Dissolution, Detaunt warrior and try to run in LOS, with Healing Breath and spamming SS. Warrior keeps on me but I manage to survive. I come back out of LOS to find the last guy alive - a tank . Everybody else is dead. Finally they get me aswell, the tanks stays up a bit more.

    I respawn.. jump down with no hots. Run for about 10m. Sap. 3 other co-players pass me by no problem, while i type "rogue sap". All alone, sap ends. 2 rogues come out of stealth . Silence, stun can't tell which is which anymore. Manage to finally get out of chain CC at ~15% hp and do a touch the light+invocation. Eh, tough luck. Anathema was on and it didn't crit. 1k heal and next second I am watching the counter again...

    This was yesterday.
    Last edited by Shaynaro; 04-20-2011 at 04:36 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by faction View Post
    No i'm pretty sure you just blow your cooldowns at ******ed times. You need to use healers covenant the second you see anathema and spam healing spray to waste it while they do 0 damage to you and you don't fall behind on healing, not when you're already low.

    You're not a good cleric if you die to 2 bad players regulary.
    So what you're saying is, I need to always be Warden and always be spamming a useless spell instead of healing myself because my health is magically staying at max while 2 people hit me - Nifty.

    In the scenario, the rogue used anathema as soon as I detaunted - At 70% - Warrior bullrushed me - He hits me, rogue hits me, at 50%. I'm out of the stun. Healing spray does NOT fix this situation, no matter what you're saying. Sure, I can spam it (doing nothing) along with Breath and die, or I can pop my instants and get some off while actually doing some healing.

    I know it's the forum mentality, but you don't have to automatically assume I'm doing things wrong - Clerics, even ones doing the right thing at the right time, can die.
    Last edited by Joyous; 04-20-2011 at 04:39 AM.
    Ugar - Spitescar - PvP

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    No? Idiot. Do you understand what Anathema does??? It has CHARGES. Using healing spray wastes the charges.

    Of course you die, you don't understand whats going on.


    Your health stays at 100% because with Healers Covenant on yourself, you literally have 100% damage reduction.

    You're bad~
    Dancer/Yeah of Briarcliff

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by faction View Post
    Not really true at all, a warrior and 1 rogue don't force you defensive unless the rogue puts anathema on you at a good time, which I guarantee you most rogues do not. I can tank a dumb nightblade+warrior easily without even detaunting.
    I ignore bad rogues when they are on me. They might as well be pets.

    A good Rogue can cause you some problems, but unless they stunlock me, I can usually hold them off for a while. Warriors are an entirely different story. I can handle the Bullrush. But one follow up stun and I'm toast.

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    Because spamming healing spray as opposed to spamming instants that heal is different... how?

    In either scenario, I cast 3 instant spells, 3 healing sprays (which do nothing) or 3 instant spells (which also do nothing). I know what anathema does, thanks :P

    Like I said, it's the forum mentality to point the finger and go "OMG BAD" but in reality, since you can't possibly come up with an excuse telling me that in 3-4 gcds spamming healing spray of all spells is going to keep me alive as opposed to other instants, it's a moot point.

    I'm not even sure you read my post. I popped 4 instants - Healing breath, A touch the light heal, Divine Call and my Empowerment heal. It's not like I'm standing there casting spells, I used 4 instants, just like Healing spray.
    Last edited by Joyous; 04-20-2011 at 04:46 AM.
    Ugar - Spitescar - PvP

  13. #13
    Sword of Telara Wawer's Avatar
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    Against 4 mages spamming AOE with me+ another healer spamming AOE heal as well.
    Needless to say, everyone except me+ a tank die.

    PS: Getting 5/10 of the play time in AOE getting stun by random pryo who didn't target me anyway.
    Watching a tank with 9k hp goes from full to zero within 12sec when under attack by a pryo. Doing more than 5k heal and still watch him die.
    Works as intended.

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    Competant pvp players, whether pug or premade, make threat assessments. Coming from more pvp centric games I'm still stunned at the number of people who dont check the player list - you can tell a lot about team tactics, composition, usual approach, how to beat them etc.

    Slightly harder in this game due to all the spec variations but as soon as the effective healers are identified they're getting marked and they're getting focused because they're the biggest threat.

    You were healing. You got an anti healer and a dps on you. S'what happens.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    Competant pvp players, whether pug or premade, make threat assessments. Coming from more pvp centric games I'm still stunned at the number of people who dont check the player list - you can tell a lot about team tactics, composition, usual approach, how to beat them etc.

    Slightly harder in this game due to all the spec variations but as soon as the effective healers are identified they're getting marked and they're getting focused because they're the biggest threat.

    You were healing. You got an anti healer and a dps on you. S'what happens.
    Oh, I'm fully aware of this, i'm not complaining in the slightest.

    Just trying to make sure the people who point fingers and go "TOO POWERFUL " actually know what's happening on the cleric end of things. We get melee trained. Anti healers (every melee) and dps target us. We get hit until we die or they die, it's what happens.
    Ugar - Spitescar - PvP

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