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Thread: Rogue buffs vs Valor buffs. Is anything really changing for rogues

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Rogue buffs vs Valor buffs. Is anything really changing for rogues

    Well i read their increasing rogue damage which is sorely needed especially in PVP, but, they are also increasing the damage reductions to Valor.

    What %inc vs %dec are we talking, If they increase them the same amounts then essentially we'll be exactly where we are now, however...

    Bard healing will be nerfed, less damage less heals as bards aren't likely getting a buff to cadence.

    Defensive and healer classes will pull further away from classes not recieving damage buffs, It's not like their making a Valor counter for heals.


    Valor is one of the stupidest stats in mmo's atm, all it does is increase effectiveness of defensive souls and weakens offensive souls.

    The ability to kill somoene is basically your ability to combat their HPS with your DPS, when all Valor does is aid HPS, why is there no "Offensive Valor" ? Why as an offensive, already resigned to be a class cannon of "Scissors fighting a paper" do i want to be a "large handled Scissors fighting a cardboard"?

    Valor does little for offensive souls and does great things for defensive souls.

    Example

    I (dps role) am now hitting you for 4 and you (healing role) is healing for 2 and your hitting me for 2, a situation of balance where essentially if we have the same hp we'd die at same time / whoever hit first.

    now it will be i am hitting you for 2, you are still healing for 2 and hitting me for 1, defensive role slowly burns down offensive role and takes 0 damage.

    It happened in EQ2 and it would take full group to take a decent geared healer down. Please remove the Valor stat, it's just ruining MMO's

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara Xanian's Avatar
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    The reason for the buff to valor is (and the general buff to stats on PvP gear), as far as i understand, to make t1/t2 gear less desirable in PvP. PvE geared players shouldn't be able to roflstomp people who mainly play PvP.

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    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthuhu View Post
    The reason for the buff to valor is (and the general buff to stats on PvP gear), as far as i understand, to make t1/t2 gear less desirable in PvP. PvE geared players shouldn't be able to roflstomp people who mainly play PvP.
    This doesn't really adress the issue of the defensive souls gaining a much greater advantage from valor than offensive souls.

    As far as your comment goes I agree to an extent, But putting Valor on both weapons and jewelry means you need to completely exchange armor sets from PVE to PVP and you essentially get nothing for your troubles raiding except being able to say look im higher on the parser than you.

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    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormi View Post
    This doesn't really adress the issue of the defensive souls gaining a much greater advantage from valor than offensive souls.

    As far as your comment goes I agree to an extent, But putting Valor on both weapons and jewelry means you need to completely exchange armor sets from PVE to PVP and you essentially get nothing for your troubles raiding except being able to say look im higher on the parser than you.
    Isn't that the point though? you do pve to get items to do more pve to get more items etc.
    and pvp is just a bit of fun on the sideline in a pve game(for all you care anyway)

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormi View Post
    This doesn't really adress the issue of the defensive souls gaining a much greater advantage from valor than offensive souls.

    As far as your comment goes I agree to an extent, But putting Valor on both weapons and jewelry means you need to completely exchange armor sets from PVE to PVP and you essentially get nothing for your troubles raiding except being able to say look im higher on the parser than you.
    please listen to you're self befor posting dumb stuff up, "you gain nothing?" lol and the gear you get is what? PVE is different then PVP so yes you need the different gear, duh....and i dont like the idea that PVE players can own a PVP player, couse of the gear. PVP needs its own gear and PVE needs its own gear, besides the point of playing ANY MMORPG is to get the best gear and of story (and be skilled to) but mainly the gear so if you dont like the idea of getting the best gear you should stop playing MMOs

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    Ascendant Visions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormi View Post
    This doesn't really adress the issue of the defensive souls gaining a much greater advantage from valor than offensive souls.
    IT IS THE SAME AMOUNT FOR BOTH DPS, AND DEFENSE BUILDS. Quit making stuff up. My God.

    Quote Originally Posted by wormi View Post
    As far as your comment goes I agree to an extent, But putting Valor on both weapons and jewelry means you need to completely exchange armor sets from PVE to PVP and you essentially get nothing for your troubles raiding except being able to say look im higher on the parser than you.
    You SHOULD HAVE to change gear based on PvP, or PvE. You raid for the content, and for the raid gear so that you can raid during the next release of raid content. So you are getting all of the benefits expected from raid gear, when you raid.

    You shouldn't be able to raid, and also gain the benefit to PvP with better gear, than the people who only want to PvP.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by collectorx View Post
    please listen to you're self befor posting dumb stuff up, "you gain nothing?" lol and the gear you get is what? PVE is different then PVP so yes you need the different gear, duh....and i dont like the idea that PVE players can own a PVP player, couse of the gear. PVP needs its own gear and PVE needs its own gear, besides the point of playing ANY MMORPG is to get the best gear and of story (and be skilled to) but mainly the gear so if you dont like the idea of getting the best gear you should stop playing MMOs
    Did you even read the main point, or the post title.

    The main point is Valor stat benifiting Defensive souls and not offensive souls, and will the increase to damage for rogues be essentially 100% countered by the increase to effectiveness of valor. You are clearly trolling for the sake of it.

    the "side" point was whats the point in having PVE raids on PVP servers that do not benifit PVP in any way, and; in a game where open world PVP is discouraged on PVP servers, by both not having PVP rewards for open world PVP and PVP gear (not all) requiring warfront faction. why bother having PVP servers at all.

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    Ascendant Visions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormi View Post
    Did you even read the main point, or the post title.

    The main point is Valor stat benifiting Defensive souls and not offensive souls, and will the increase to damage for rogues be essentially 100% countered by the increase to effectiveness of valor. You are clearly trolling for the sake of it.

    the "side" point was whats the point in having PVE raids on PVP servers that do not benifit PVP in any way, and; in a game where open world PVP is discouraged on PVP servers, by both not having PVP rewards for open world PVP and PVP gear (not all) requiring warfront faction. why bother having PVP servers at all.
    You can't be serious.


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    Plane Walker
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    I personally would like to see an offensive counterpart to Valor, something that increases damage against players akin to (but in addition to) Attack Power/Spell Power. Make it so there is a defensive set and an offensive set.

    Give people the choice whether to up their damage or up their survivability.

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara Atreiu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavingLunatic View Post
    I personally would like to see an offensive counterpart to Valor, something that increases damage against players akin to (but in addition to) Attack Power/Spell Power. Make it so there is a defensive set and an offensive set.

    Give people the choice whether to up their damage or up their survivability.
    This would be too smart to be in game I guess...

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  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    The rogues' will be getting their damage increase along with the valor buff, while some classes will be sitting at the same unmitigated damage as before.
    Buff = Buff

    Edit: As for valor benefitting Defensive souls more than offensive: What is this, I dont even?
    Last edited by Shmuck; 04-18-2011 at 07:24 PM.

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara baph's Avatar
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    It's a buff relative to the other classes, so rogues will get "something." Will it make healers even more difficult to kill? Probably. So either go play a healer yourself, or realize that PvP is a team game and your team has these healers as well.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavingLunatic View Post
    I personally would like to see an offensive counterpart to Valor, something that increases damage against players akin to (but in addition to) Attack Power/Spell Power. Make it so there is a defensive set and an offensive set.

    Give people the choice whether to up their damage or up their survivability.
    Please god no.

    Please. God. No.

    This is what the game doesn't need. Ever.
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  14. #14
    Shield of Telara Krazer's Avatar
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    If people would could read anything correctly they will realize.

    1) Valor is getting a buff.

    2) PvP gear is getting more offensive stats.

    3) New PvP weapons on par with raid epics.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    To people who think Valor buffs offensive souls as much as defensive souls, your kidding youself.

    People are already complaining at the classes who can stack damage reduction, you think adding greater damage reduction to Valor is any different ?

    I never said they weren't buffing damage for some DPS souls, I merely wondered how much they are buffing the damage compared to damage reduction.

    Cant you see that if the damage reduction increases to valor are 1:1 to the damage increases to DPS souls, we've essentially gone nowhere, except to make defensive roles even harder to kill and effectively increased heal effectiveness of clerics and decreased heal effectiveness of support bards/chloros etc.

    It's not like Valor gives you more defense but less heals.

    Rather than thinking blindly and say OMFG IT"S SAME FOR EVERYONE ETC have a think about it.

    Look at the simple numbers in the OP. Anyone who's ever played an MMO will know that the cycle has been, introduce PVP toughness, healers/tanks are OP, Increase DPS etc. PVP defence stat just introduces a viscous cycle
    Last edited by wormi; 04-18-2011 at 08:23 PM.

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