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Thread: Warfront Queue Times is NOT about total number of players queued...

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    Rift Disciple Aeramis's Avatar
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    Default Warfront Queue Times is NOT about total number of players queued...

    ...It's about the ratio of guardian to defiant players queueing.

    If you have a current ratio of 5 guardian to 2 defiant players, then the guardians are going to have a wait list. If you add more shards with a similar imbalance, then you're not going to fix anything. (10 guardian to 4 defiant players.) Similarly, if across ALL shards there is an imbalance, of say 4 guardians to 3 defiants, then the guardians will still have a wait time.

    Therefore: The best solution is to strategically combine battlegroups so that the ratio of players queueing is nearly equal. Do combine battlegroups for more variety, but keep at least 4 separate groups so that as imbalances arise, shards can be moved to compensate.

    /thread
    Last edited by Aeramis; 04-18-2011 at 07:28 AM.

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    Rift Disciple Aeramis's Avatar
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    Well, glad to educate the world

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    Rift Disciple wfsaxton's Avatar
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    I know this. You know this. Trion knows this.

    The only explanation is that they are waiting for weeks of data before determining new battlegroup configurations.

    Just like they needed weeks of data before actually making PvP gear as good as PvE gear

    I mean...this has to be the explanation, right?

    Or maybe Guardians simply outnumber Defiant? Or QUEUEING Guardians outnumber QUEUEING Defiant? Then, the only solution would be to incentivize rolling Defiant characters...or allowing for Faction transfers (highly unlikely).

    These are the only explanations I can think of.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Aeramis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfsaxton View Post
    I know this. You know this. Trion knows this.
    The problem is: No one else seems to know this as they scream "Combine all shards into one massive group!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by wfsaxton View Post
    Or maybe Guardians simply outnumber Defiant? Or QUEUEING Guardians outnumber QUEUEING Defiant? Then, the only solution would be to incentivize rolling Defiant characters...or allowing for Faction transfers (highly unlikely).

    These are the only explanations I can think of.

    Or allow Warfronts to mix Guardians and Defiants on a team. Do we PvPers really care what faction the other players are in?

    It will solve all my problems with Warfronts. It is also much easier to balance: Can't complain about the map because you half equal chance to be on either starting location. Can't complain about one faction having all the healers because they may end up on your team.




    The whole idea of non-intermingling factions is silly to me.

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    Rift Disciple wfsaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piece of Shoe View Post
    Or allow Warfronts to mix Guardians and Defiants on a team. Do we PvPers really care what faction the other players are in?

    It will solve all my problems with Warfronts. It is also much easier to balance: Can't complain about the map because you half equal chance to be on either starting location. Can't complain about one faction having all the healers because they may end up on your team.

    The whole idea of non-intermingling factions is silly to me.
    At first, I was actually open to your idea...but then I realized just how much I'd miss the "rivalry" with my enemies.

    There has to be a better way. Slowly allowing Faction transfers could be the key...but because it would hurt "realism" I'm not so sure it would even be considered.

    I don't care which Faction I am...I picked Guardian because I thought they would be under-represented. The problem is...so did a lot of other people!

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    Its widely known that on seastone defiant simply dont Q. This leads to seastone guardians primarily fighting people from the other 3 servers in the bracket. They really need to rework brackets
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    Rift Disciple wfsaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    Its widely known that on seastone defiant simply dont Q. This leads to seastone guardians primarily fighting people from the other 3 servers in the bracket. They really need to rework brackets
    That may be true, but there really does seem to be a Guardian-heavy population imbalance across all servers...so no amount of battlegroup reworking would fix it.
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    Rift Disciple Aeramis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfsaxton View Post
    a...but then I realized just how much I'd miss the "rivalry" with my enemies.
    Exactly

    I don't care which Faction I am...I picked Guardian because I thought they would be under-represented. The problem is...so did a lot of other people!
    Lol!

    Quote Originally Posted by wfsaxton View Post
    ...so no amount of battlegroup reworking would fix it.
    Surely false.

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    Rift Disciple wfsaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeramis View Post
    Surely false.
    If Guardians outnumber Defiants, how can any amount of battlegroup reworking be done to make queue times better?

    It's math.
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  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Aeramis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfsaxton View Post
    If Guardians outnumber Defiants, how can any amount of battlegroup reworking be done to make queue times better?

    It's math.
    Surely there are servers where Defiant outnumber. I do believe I've heard of them having wait times too... But ya, if not then faction transfers, or an inability to create new Guardians until a certain Defiant population is reached would be the only fix I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeramis View Post
    The problem is: No one else seems to know this as they scream "Combine all shards into one massive group!"
    Because it would still help?

    Let's say the ratio is actually 5:2 for the guardians, for each server, per 10 minutes ( let's say they play a 10 minutes game ).

    3 servers per queues, so there's 15 guardians and 6 defiants queue'ing up every 10 minutes. that's not enough for a game, they'll need (10/6 * 10 = 16.66... ) almost 17 minutes to roll a game.
    If you're a defiant, you'll get a game every 17 minutes, if you're a guardian, you'll get a game every (17 * 15/10 = 25.5 ) 25 minutes.

    Let's say they put 30 servers together.
    Every 10 minutes, there's 150 guardians and 60 defiants queue'ing up.
    so you get 6 games popping out right of the bat.
    There's now 90 guardians in queue, and they'll get their game to pop when 90 defiants queue, which takes 15 minutes.

    So there will be 6 games popping from 0 to 10 minutes ( average : 5 minutes ) and 9 more games popping from 10 to 25 minutes ( average : 17.5 minutes ) which means the average queue for guardians will be (6 * 5) + (9 * 17.5) / 15 = 12.5 minutes.

    Just by putting 30 servers together, the guardian's waiting time is reduced by 50%. from 25 minutes to 12.5 minutes.

    And now, I'm using an example where the queue by factions is VERY imbalanced, it's doubtfull there's 2.5x more guardians queueing up.

    With, say, 20% more guardians queuing up ( and not 250% as in the example ) the queue times would be almost instant for 90% of the players. The only one who would have to wait a bit are those 20% over guys, and they still wouldn't wait long because it will not be long to get 10 defiants to queue up from a pool of 30 servers. We're talking split minutes here, maybe couple minutes at slow timezone.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Aeramis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    3 servers per queues, so there's 15 guardians and 6 defiants queue'ing up every 10 minutes. that's not enough for a game, they'll need (10/6 * 10 = 16.66... ) almost 17 minutes to roll a game.
    This is where you're going wrong. There are plenty queueing for matches. If on one side of the battlegroup people are getting instant queues, then there are more than enough people queueing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard of both sides of any battlegroups having wait times yet. If so, then ya... But, I'm still for combining battlegroups as it'd create more variety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piece of Shoe View Post
    Or allow Warfronts to mix Guardians and Defiants on a team. Do we PvPers really care what faction the other players are in?

    It will solve all my problems with Warfronts. It is also much easier to balance: Can't complain about the map because you half equal chance to be on either starting location. Can't complain about one faction having all the healers because they may end up on your team.

    The whole idea of non-intermingling factions is silly to me.
    Please don't stab me for bringing up That Other Game, but Blizzard is on record as saying that a lot of the success of PvP and other events has to do with creating the groundwork for a rivalry between the two factions and letting the players themselves play it up.

    People don't seem to be as passionate about it here in Rift as they are in That Other Game though, so it might not apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalos View Post
    Please don't stab me for bringing up That Other Game, but Blizzard is on record as saying that a lot of the success of PvP and other events has to do with creating the groundwork for a rivalry between the two factions and letting the players themselves play it up.

    People don't seem to be as passionate about it here in Rift as they are in That Other Game though, so it might not apply.
    I completely agree.

    With an exception to the Bahmi and Dwarves, the factions are the same base species that just disagree on key points. There's not much of an on-sight rivalry when you'd have to go up to someone and ask what their thoughts on the state of the world are.

    Honestly some of the battlegrounds could be reworked to be guardian and alliance teams working toward common instead of factional goals. I may be wrong, but I don't think that would fudge lore up *too* much?


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